Lol I really have no horse in the race... I think the whole point of LOTR and most of Tolkien's work is about fate and doom: that things couldn't have happened any other way than the way they did. Done by a lesser author, it would've been kind of bullshit, but he manages to make it about what it is to be immersed in fate, to have its weight on your shoulders, and how it changes you.
It's far more interesting to see the character's reactions to this underlying force, how people grow, how they build and reinforce relationships, the scars and after effects of being thrown in the whirlwind of fate, and having come out of it alive. The ring couldn't have been destroyed without the fellowship, and they all paid the price, even with their lives, like Boromir. Sam and Frodo are good characters, but what to me makes the books is their relationship, the love they share for each other, and the unfailing courage they have, that couldn't have existed if either was on their own.
Agree that Frodo is the protagonist, the hero, and it's really interesting you call him the martyr, because it's really fitting. Frodo burned in the fire of being a ring bearer because he had ultimate faith in the cause, even if it was sprung on him unwillingly.
Oh, I completely agree with all of that. I'm just triggered by Samfans that can only praise Sam by disparaging Frodo. Hate that shit, to be honest.
I love Sam but no one could've done what Frodo did with the Ring, according to Tolkien himself, and no one could've cared for and been totally loyal towards Frodo the way Sam was, but it's a different strength and accomplishment.
I do think the movies made Frodo look a certain way that makes people think he's a useless idiot or something but the books definitely always made me feel like Frodo was an extremely tragic martyr.
Lol I really have no horse in the race... I think the whole point of LOTR and most of Tolkien's work is about fate and doom: that things couldn't have happened any other way than the way they did. Done by a lesser author, it would've been kind of bullshit, but he manages to make it about what it is to be immersed in fate, to have its weight on your shoulders, and how it changes you.
It's far more interesting to see the character's reactions to this underlying force, how people grow, how they build and reinforce relationships, the scars and after effects of being thrown in the whirlwind of fate, and having come out of it alive. The ring couldn't have been destroyed without the fellowship, and they all paid the price, even with their lives, like Boromir. Sam and Frodo are good characters, but what to me makes the books is their relationship, the love they share for each other, and the unfailing courage they have, that couldn't have existed if either was on their own.
Agree that Frodo is the protagonist, the hero, and it's really interesting you call him the martyr, because it's really fitting. Frodo burned in the fire of being a ring bearer because he had ultimate faith in the cause, even if it was sprung on him unwillingly.
Oh, I completely agree with all of that. I'm just triggered by Samfans that can only praise Sam by disparaging Frodo. Hate that shit, to be honest.
I love Sam but no one could've done what Frodo did with the Ring, according to Tolkien himself, and no one could've cared for and been totally loyal towards Frodo the way Sam was, but it's a different strength and accomplishment.
I do think the movies made Frodo look a certain way that makes people think he's a useless idiot or something but the books definitely always made me feel like Frodo was an extremely tragic martyr.