"one carton of prophet Muhammad and now macron is the devil" like it IS THEIR FUCKING RELIGION IT WAS DONE TO PISS THEM OFF AND DISRESPECT A MAIN DOCTRINE OF THEIR RELIGION LIKE IT IS THE ONLY REASON TO DO
I don't think that's the thing we should criticise right now. Religion is shit anyway and nobody should be beheaded for drawing a cartoon. Not even Ben Garrison.
However, we should be criticising the material conditions minorities endured in France for the last 100 years. There are people in France who have been lured/pressured from their colonised home countries and who are still considered less than the french. Many terror attacks were carried out by young french people who were turned towards Islam because they were never given any other chance. That hasn't changed although it would be the best prevention against future killing sprees.
Also the I think you're right about how the cartoons were published to provoke that exact reaction, so brown people could successfully be painted as savages.
like i am not defending violence i just don't think that this kinda of display helps solve the fucking problem it just adds more fuel like especially it being literally the head of state of france doing it like there is no real gain in this, and like i am an atheist my position on this like personally WHY WOULD I CARE like it such a non issue like you could just not draw muhammad because you know it is disrepectful and if you are doing it still is because you want to be disrespectful like it really does not affect anyone's life in the same way that catholics believing in saint does not change anyone's life or hindu not eating cows like why would i care about these things like i don't know believe whatever this is such a small thing our planet is going to fucking die in a dumb preventable disaster we refuse to engage and we are having to talk about this
Breaking religious taboos is actually unironically fine, and pissing off religious people is cool.
Do you think the protests against Life Of Brian were in the right too? Should we condemn any place that exhibits piss christ?
Because I literally do not see the difference between these things.
like i am really trying to think why the head of state of france disrepecting a whole religion would be good in any way and be considered breaking religious taboos because it kinda is not his religion is it but i don't know like giving space to famously not weird about islam country france on doing this kinda shit is kinda not a good idea i guess and on the life of brian yeah i don't remember thatcher being in the movie so kinda weird comparison
lmao Life of Brian is not some deeply offensive movie about someone else's religion. It was made by a bunch of white dudes to mock some conception people they are surrounded by have of something that happened a long time ago. And you aren't bringing out a century of suffering and oppression when you say "Christianity r dumb!", you're punching up. "Satirizing" a religion of a persecuted ethnic minority is not just criticism. It's saying "we have complete control over you, deal with it."
Disrespecting the most oppressed group of people in the world to own religion. Yeah, it's edgy time.
Show me where Christians are being persecuted across the planet with constant negative propaganda and literally murdered on a daily basis and we can talk about the effects of disrespecting Christianity.
Disrespecting the most oppressed group of people in the world
First off: Lol. French muslims are oppressed, but we literally have Romani in the same country, and outside of France we have groups experiencing genocide.
Secondly, their level of persecution isirrelevant to this discussion. The religious sentiments of muslims are not sacrosanct, and they can be subjected to the exact same level of criticism and ridicule as any other religion. Islam is not special in thsi regard. The onyl thing special about this is that muslims get more upset by it, which is precisely why it is fine to keep making muhammad cartoons. The entire point of transgressive art is that it transgresses, and challenges ideas about ourselves and what we consider important and not subject to challenge. The taboos of muslims are just as open to challenge as the taboos of anyone else.
muslims get more upset by it, which is precisely why it is fine to keep making muhammad cartoons
Maybe the just have more of an actual reason to? Like, they're more actually religious than others who view religion as more of a cultural signifier than a spiritual thing, like in the US.
The entire point of transgressive art is that it transgresses, and challenges ideas about ourselves
Doesn't really work, when "ourselves" is a religious and ethnic minority in a western imperialist country that has participated in committing mass murder against people of that broad ethnic minority.
The taboos of muslims are just as open to challenge as the taboos of anyone else.
Maybe in a Muslim majority country where they can actually have that kind of discussion without it just immediately becoming a racist gang-banging.
The racist component is almost the entirety of this "art", especially since its mainly done by white people who are either Christian or agnostic. And the jokes that are poked at Christianity are never the same, because they aren't directed at a minority group and they usually involve a level of respect and a usually joking attitude. You don't see many mainstream people literally saying "Christianity is dumb and its followers are basically bad/ignorant people". That kind of language is explicitly reserved for Muslims. And as far as I know, this is entirely one sided. You don't see Muslims in the Middle East saying Christianity is dumb and Judaism is dumb, because those are actually somewhat of a basis for Islam. So again, "criticism" of Islam seems to be entirely Islamophobia. You simply can't say it is fine for people in white supremacist countries to "criticize" a religion that they have been violently and savagely murdering members of for at least the last 50 if not 100 years.
It's the same concept as "critical support" for Syria or whatever. I have "critical support" for Islam because it is a common (but obviously loose in many ways) bond between a billion people who are largely experiencing almost all of the most horrific violence that exists in the world right now.
It's the same as liberalism effectively moving people to nihilism
~
Nothing, nothing has become a pillar of belief in the west
Similarly, if you are a Muslim, you should give to those less for fortunate, you should want to provide people with access to education, healthcare, housing etc.
But what do you get? You get garbage politics, corruption and hate mongering
~
It's like the brain dead liberalism on the west that in truth only cares about the wealthy and placates labour with the dizzying drug of gradualism
~
So what is left really, besides nihilism? It's either that or eating the rich
~
So when an opportunity for outrage against the 'team' occurs it riles people up
They have someone to blame for everything wrong in the world
And yea, fuck Macron, mostly for being a neolib and going further right
But fuck the dictators and authoritarians of the north Africa, the middle east through to the south china sea who have repeatedly failed to deliver
Oh no another South African poster, time to delete my account before I get doxxed.
spoiler
That's a joke, I'm just terrible at posting
But on a serious note the situation around domestic workers/maids is extremely messed up, they are legally excluded from worker protections other workers get, and that law is only changing now. They pretty much get treated horribly, and it makes me so angry, words can't really describe it.
"one carton of prophet Muhammad and now macron is the devil" like it IS THEIR FUCKING RELIGION IT WAS DONE TO PISS THEM OFF AND DISRESPECT A MAIN DOCTRINE OF THEIR RELIGION LIKE IT IS THE ONLY REASON TO DO
I don't think that's the thing we should criticise right now. Religion is shit anyway and nobody should be beheaded for drawing a cartoon. Not even Ben Garrison.
However, we should be criticising the material conditions minorities endured in France for the last 100 years. There are people in France who have been lured/pressured from their colonised home countries and who are still considered less than the french. Many terror attacks were carried out by young french people who were turned towards Islam because they were never given any other chance. That hasn't changed although it would be the best prevention against future killing sprees.
Also the I think you're right about how the cartoons were published to provoke that exact reaction, so brown people could successfully be painted as savages.
like i am not defending violence i just don't think that this kinda of display helps solve the fucking problem it just adds more fuel like especially it being literally the head of state of france doing it like there is no real gain in this, and like i am an atheist my position on this like personally WHY WOULD I CARE like it such a non issue like you could just not draw muhammad because you know it is disrepectful and if you are doing it still is because you want to be disrespectful like it really does not affect anyone's life in the same way that catholics believing in saint does not change anyone's life or hindu not eating cows like why would i care about these things like i don't know believe whatever this is such a small thing our planet is going to fucking die in a dumb preventable disaster we refuse to engage and we are having to talk about this
French hostility towards Islam goes well beyond Charlie Hebow.
Breaking religious taboos is actually unironically fine, and pissing off religious people is cool. Do you think the protests against Life Of Brian were in the right too? Should we condemn any place that exhibits piss christ? Because I literally do not see the difference between these things.
like i am really trying to think why the head of state of france disrepecting a whole religion would be good in any way and be considered breaking religious taboos because it kinda is not his religion is it but i don't know like giving space to famously not weird about islam country france on doing this kinda shit is kinda not a good idea i guess and on the life of brian yeah i don't remember thatcher being in the movie so kinda weird comparison
Life of Brian has been broadcast by the BBC. It is entirely comparable.
lmao Life of Brian is not some deeply offensive movie about someone else's religion. It was made by a bunch of white dudes to mock some conception people they are surrounded by have of something that happened a long time ago. And you aren't bringing out a century of suffering and oppression when you say "Christianity r dumb!", you're punching up. "Satirizing" a religion of a persecuted ethnic minority is not just criticism. It's saying "we have complete control over you, deal with it."
Disrespecting the most oppressed group of people in the world to own religion. Yeah, it's edgy time.
Show me where Christians are being persecuted across the planet with constant negative propaganda and literally murdered on a daily basis and we can talk about the effects of disrespecting Christianity.
First off: Lol. French muslims are oppressed, but we literally have Romani in the same country, and outside of France we have groups experiencing genocide.
Secondly, their level of persecution isirrelevant to this discussion. The religious sentiments of muslims are not sacrosanct, and they can be subjected to the exact same level of criticism and ridicule as any other religion. Islam is not special in thsi regard. The onyl thing special about this is that muslims get more upset by it, which is precisely why it is fine to keep making muhammad cartoons. The entire point of transgressive art is that it transgresses, and challenges ideas about ourselves and what we consider important and not subject to challenge. The taboos of muslims are just as open to challenge as the taboos of anyone else.
Maybe the just have more of an actual reason to? Like, they're more actually religious than others who view religion as more of a cultural signifier than a spiritual thing, like in the US.
Doesn't really work, when "ourselves" is a religious and ethnic minority in a western imperialist country that has participated in committing mass murder against people of that broad ethnic minority.
Maybe in a Muslim majority country where they can actually have that kind of discussion without it just immediately becoming a racist gang-banging.
The racist component is almost the entirety of this "art", especially since its mainly done by white people who are either Christian or agnostic. And the jokes that are poked at Christianity are never the same, because they aren't directed at a minority group and they usually involve a level of respect and a usually joking attitude. You don't see many mainstream people literally saying "Christianity is dumb and its followers are basically bad/ignorant people". That kind of language is explicitly reserved for Muslims. And as far as I know, this is entirely one sided. You don't see Muslims in the Middle East saying Christianity is dumb and Judaism is dumb, because those are actually somewhat of a basis for Islam. So again, "criticism" of Islam seems to be entirely Islamophobia. You simply can't say it is fine for people in white supremacist countries to "criticize" a religion that they have been violently and savagely murdering members of for at least the last 50 if not 100 years.
It's the same concept as "critical support" for Syria or whatever. I have "critical support" for Islam because it is a common (but obviously loose in many ways) bond between a billion people who are largely experiencing almost all of the most horrific violence that exists in the world right now.
No it's actually more basic than that
It's the same as liberalism effectively moving people to nihilism
~
Nothing, nothing has become a pillar of belief in the west
Similarly, if you are a Muslim, you should give to those less for fortunate, you should want to provide people with access to education, healthcare, housing etc.
But what do you get? You get garbage politics, corruption and hate mongering
~
It's like the brain dead liberalism on the west that in truth only cares about the wealthy and placates labour with the dizzying drug of gradualism
~
So what is left really, besides nihilism? It's either that or eating the rich
~
So when an opportunity for outrage against the 'team' occurs it riles people up
They have someone to blame for everything wrong in the world
And yea, fuck Macron, mostly for being a neolib and going further right
But fuck the dictators and authoritarians of the north Africa, the middle east through to the south china sea who have repeatedly failed to deliver
I'll go one further, I'm originally from South Africa
The Muslims there like apartheid, they like being segregated from the rest of society
~
Watch 'The Message' and cry crocodile tears when Bilal gets tortured and then not bother paying the maid a living wage
The level of disconnect is just bizarre and it took me years to get how fucked my early life was
Oh no another South African poster, time to delete my account before I get doxxed.
spoiler
That's a joke, I'm just terrible at posting
But on a serious note the situation around domestic workers/maids is extremely messed up, they are legally excluded from worker protections other workers get, and that law is only changing now. They pretty much get treated horribly, and it makes me so angry, words can't really describe it.