• foxodroid [she/her]
    5·
    4 years ago

    i'm not fine with this. I'm a former Muslim living in a Muslim country, i'm absolutely not okay with drawing a cartoon being a death flag. And i'm not fine with leftists allowing the right to take over this "conversation" like this. I'm not okay with normalizing the respect of stupid religious rules by force over non-muslims.

    I get you sympathize with French Muslims because in that specific context it's punching down but people in Muslim countries have been assaulted, jailed or killed for less. This is not about drawing Mohamed per se, Shia Muslims do it and have done it for 1400 years, it's about criticizing him . showing him in an unflattering light.

    That's what they're angry about. You literally can't talk leftism here without tip-toeing around Mohamed's legacy. Feminism? property rights? religious and sexual minorities? Once they invoke the religion card you have 70% of people against you.

    the better approach in my view is that leftists talk about this, instead of unfairly bashing outraged people and pushing them into the right wing. You can both understand extremism is born out of material conditions, that Muslims are currently france's scapegoat for it's economic troube and believe religious criticism is a right.

    • zeal0telite [he/him,they/them]
      2·
      4 years ago

      I'm gonna start by saying that I have never drawn Mohammed, and never have any intention of doing so, and things like the OP are pointlessly upsetting people for no reason.

      I will also mention that I was raised in a non-religious household where the only rule that was ever really give to me was "anything is okay to do as long is it doesn't hurt others".

      That said, I also do not like the idea of letting a religion impose its will on non-believers simply because it's "marginalised" is kind of scary and would not lead us down a good road.

      I get where it's coming from, and the government itself should certainly not be partaking in the antagonism, but come on. You should not be fucking killed for doing anything like this and some people here seem to take a strange amount of glee from this event.

      • foxodroid [she/her]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Yeah my only issue with this whole saga is the French government's emotionally manipulative spin to this. A government should never take part in antagonising a minority at the best of times, let alone use it as a lightning rod for social and economic dysfunction. I guess a smart politician never lets a good crisis go to waste.

        People who are used to making fun of religion aren't wrong to feel outrage that someone got killed gruesomely over it. We're not Muslim, we shouldn't have to observe Islamic rules.

        I just need to reiterate that any leftist who takes it seriously would be delusional to think they won't have to face Mohamed's legacy at some point. Which necessitates criticising him, and people will be angry and the Muslim right wing fascists bank on it. But it has to happen regardless.

    • Moonrise [comrade/them,they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      nobody here is saying that we can't criticize islam. we are upset that people are targeting an oppressed group because one of them murdered someone. We don't do this when christian commit hate crimes.

      • foxodroid [she/her]
        1·
        4 years ago

        I would never blame a European for not caring what happens in Malaysia. People have limited time and energy to care. And obviously the threat close home matters most.

        Hell I don't care what happens in the US or EU unless it possibly concerns Arabs and I don't expect foreigners to follow our local news. That's not a sign of hypocrisy.

        On principle alone drawing Mohamed isn't wrong and no one should have to observe religious teachings they don't believe in.

          • foxodroid [she/her]
            2·
            4 years ago

            it really just comes down to bullying a minority population who doesnt have much in the way of political power here.

            I don't even know where to start with this take. Calling drawing some cartoon "bullying" is extremely over dramatic. Not a racist cartoon, not a pro-imperialism or violence one, but a cartoon of a religious figure known for pedophilia and violence. No other group would consider religious satire bullying like this.

            Ultimately there's nothing immoral without showing derision towards religion, even a minority one.

            Asfor political power, where i'm standing all the way back in Tunisia, we're rarely capable of directly criticizing religion or mocking it the way it's possible in the West. But i would still want the Arab world to be exposed to those ideas, it breaks the taboo around them, and normalising that makes it easier to talk about later here. So it's crucial for these topics to be handled where there is space for it but absolutely tragic that the left stupidly allows the right to control this topic. Then we end up with people like Sam Harris justifying nuking Iran and torturing Iraqis. 15 years ago no one talked about LGBT people or atheism, hell i hadn't heard of the mere concepts until my late teens, didn't know it's a thing that exists. It noticably shifted the overton window.

            It just feeds all the people looking for a fight and leaves a trail of collateral damage for really no reason.

            If the fight started because a random person did a thing that's perfectly moral, is that person the one at wrong?