I have not cheered for anything. I regret this situation as much as anyone. I simply think that it's plain silly to capitulate to a mafia state that kidnaps and "re-educates" your children, bombs your hospitals and schools, massacres your villages and whose leaders have openly questioned the need for a Ukranian identity. I also think it's quite telling that these "peace appeals" are only made to Ukraine, even though it takes two to tango and Ukraine isn't the one trespassing.
I think the war should continue for as long as Ukrainians are willing to fight. And not because I'm a cartoon villain that wants them all to die; I think any deal with Russia's mafia leadership isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The Russians have already stomped all over the Budapest memorandum that guaranteed Ukraine's territorial sovereignty, why would they honor any other deal? At best the Russians would use the peacetime to resupply and rearm and try again later.
I don't like being painted as someone who is told what to think. I do not think the Ukraine war is a "good one", there are no "good" wars. I simply empathize more with the victims of imperialism and not the perpetrators of imperialism.
That's a challenge rating impossible. I see libs do this constantly. Invasion=imperialism for them, i think mostly because like you said, they want to use our words to sound more left wing even though they don't know what they're saying
I wasn't saying they weren't, improve your reading comprehension. I was saying they weren't doing these things on purpose.
Wait a sec, Egon. How would you know that? If you don't, why claim it? There have been a lot of attacks on civilian infrastructure and reckless attacks in civilian areas. I'm not quite convinced that russia is as innocent as you seem to believe.
Why would you think the best of russia to begin with? They send conscripts & mobilized citizens off to a war that didn't need to happen. They prevent many of their own from leaving the country... it's the poor who will suffer the most.
Why now and not in the beginning? I don't know for sure, but wars often end when one side loses the will to fight ... maybe they are trying to wear
down the will of the Ukrainians and allies? If the Ukrainian media is to believed, it doesn't seem to be working. It sounds like it will be a long one.
Edit: Your last link didn't link to the original OHCHR report, and presents a one-sided view. You can find the proper report linked to from here: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/07/high-commissioner-human-rights-high-numbers-civilian-casualties-ukraine
The press release contains a clear and obvious link to the report itself. I didn't claim otherwise.
You provided a link to some pro-russian propaganda that selectively quoted from what seems to be a fair and balanced report. I provided a link to the press release for the original report, and point out that it has more to it than the selective quotes.
You then claim bad faith. Given the ease with which you claim bad faith whenever anyone argues with you, I think that you should define what you mean by good and bad faith.
And now you promote bullying/violence with the reference to school lockers? Grow up.
Most of the time I am on my phone which isn't the best for essay style responses. If I notice a particular point that is worth commenting on, then I focus on that point. Sometimes I forget to quote just that point which may be confusing, and I apologise for that.
You tend to write a lot and jump all over the place trying to answer everything at once and introduce new points, preempting questions, and throwing in personal criticisms and judgements, which is quite exhausting. I suspect that you also jump to the conclusion that because I am criticising one point, that I am criticising everything.
I used to write work emails a bit like that, until I got similar feedback a few years back. The threaded approach is also common in business messaging apps, shared editing of documents, etc.
I do appreciate your good English. It's far too rare these days.
I wonder whether it would be worth it for hexbear to maintain an FAQ or wiki, as I think you and others spend a lot of time repeating the same things to many people. Sometimes a link is worth a thousand words.
maybe they are trying to wear down the will of the Ukrainians and allies? If the Ukrainian media is to believed, it doesn't seem to be working.
the favorite thing that pro-Ukraine libs love to do is make up a goal for Russia out of thin air and then boast that they haven't achieved it. as if they uniquely understand and can remotely probe the Slavic brain with their superior Western minds. If Ukraine puts combatants inside hospitals or schools, which they have done, then Russia is under no obligation to not hit them. clearly, Russia's track record of not bombing hospitals or schools with civilians inside isn't 100%, because that's almost impossible to do in a war this size without clairvoyant abilities - there is always uncertainty. we don't excuse those hits when they happen, but let's also not pretend that Ukraine hasn't been hitting Russian civilian buildings too.
I simply think that it's plain silly to capitulate to a mafia state that kidnaps and "re-educates" your children, bombs your hospitals and schools, massacres your villages and whose leaders have openly questioned the need for [your] identity
so you support the struggle of the DPR and LPR against Ukraine?
I simply think that it's plain silly to capitulate to a mafia state that kidnaps and "re-educates" your children, bombs your hospitals and schools, massacres your villages and whose leaders have openly questioned the need for an...identity.
Its a cheeky joke that is wondering why the United States has the moral authority to hypocritically police another state for actions that the USA engages in regularly and yet does not receive a fraction of the pushback.
It's also worth pointing out, however, that the USA has been stoking the flames of Russian-Ukraine conflict for decades beginning with Operation Aerodynamics.
Yeah that's fair, these threads aren't great for getting a sense of what people's ideas are here. Especially since folks end up fairly antagonistic and the comments pile up. If you are curious, Here is a pretty good comment on the war, and I do recommend using the search function and just perusing the longer (especially sourced, read the sources!) and more effortful comments.
I have not cheered for anything. I regret this situation as much as anyone. I simply think that it's plain silly to capitulate to a mafia state that kidnaps and "re-educates" your children, bombs your hospitals and schools, massacres your villages and whose leaders have openly questioned the need for a Ukranian identity. I also think it's quite telling that these "peace appeals" are only made to Ukraine, even though it takes two to tango and Ukraine isn't the one trespassing.
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Wow dude, this little number you've written here has so many logical fallacies and projections.
First of all, in no way am I defending the US invasions of the Middle East. Shit was bad and unnecessary.
Second of all, Russians are absolutely bombing hospitals and buildings full of children. They bombed a building in Mariupol that was used to house children and had that written on the roof. I'm also worried that they're kidnapping children and robbing them of their Ukranian identity.
I think the war should continue for as long as Ukrainians are willing to fight. And not because I'm a cartoon villain that wants them all to die; I think any deal with Russia's mafia leadership isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The Russians have already stomped all over the Budapest memorandum that guaranteed Ukraine's territorial sovereignty, why would they honor any other deal? At best the Russians would use the peacetime to resupply and rearm and try again later.
The people who lied to you about those wars are telling you today's war is totally a good one. Why would you believe them?
because russia is bad country
I don't like being painted as someone who is told what to think. I do not think the Ukraine war is a "good one", there are no "good" wars. I simply empathize more with the victims of imperialism and not the perpetrators of imperialism.
imperialism isn't "when a country invades another country" for fuck's sake, stop dressing your libshit in the facade of left-wing rhetoric.
That's a challenge rating impossible. I see libs do this constantly. Invasion=imperialism for them, i think mostly because like you said, they want to use our words to sound more left wing even though they don't know what they're saying
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Wait a sec, Egon. How would you know that? If you don't, why claim it? There have been a lot of attacks on civilian infrastructure and reckless attacks in civilian areas. I'm not quite convinced that russia is as innocent as you seem to believe.
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Why would you think the best of russia to begin with? They send conscripts & mobilized citizens off to a war that didn't need to happen. They prevent many of their own from leaving the country... it's the poor who will suffer the most.
Why now and not in the beginning? I don't know for sure, but wars often end when one side loses the will to fight ... maybe they are trying to wear down the will of the Ukrainians and allies? If the Ukrainian media is to believed, it doesn't seem to be working. It sounds like it will be a long one.
Edit: Your last link didn't link to the original OHCHR report, and presents a one-sided view. You can find the proper report linked to from here: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/07/high-commissioner-human-rights-high-numbers-civilian-casualties-ukraine
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The press release contains a clear and obvious link to the report itself. I didn't claim otherwise.
You provided a link to some pro-russian propaganda that selectively quoted from what seems to be a fair and balanced report. I provided a link to the press release for the original report, and point out that it has more to it than the selective quotes.
You then claim bad faith. Given the ease with which you claim bad faith whenever anyone argues with you, I think that you should define what you mean by good and bad faith.
And now you promote bullying/violence with the reference to school lockers? Grow up.
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Nitpicking says the guy who whined about a clearly marked edit on a comment. Whatever man.
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Most of the time I am on my phone which isn't the best for essay style responses. If I notice a particular point that is worth commenting on, then I focus on that point. Sometimes I forget to quote just that point which may be confusing, and I apologise for that.
You tend to write a lot and jump all over the place trying to answer everything at once and introduce new points, preempting questions, and throwing in personal criticisms and judgements, which is quite exhausting. I suspect that you also jump to the conclusion that because I am criticising one point, that I am criticising everything.
I used to write work emails a bit like that, until I got similar feedback a few years back. The threaded approach is also common in business messaging apps, shared editing of documents, etc.
I do appreciate your good English. It's far too rare these days.
I wonder whether it would be worth it for hexbear to maintain an FAQ or wiki, as I think you and others spend a lot of time repeating the same things to many people. Sometimes a link is worth a thousand words.
the favorite thing that pro-Ukraine libs love to do is make up a goal for Russia out of thin air and then boast that they haven't achieved it. as if they uniquely understand and can remotely probe the Slavic brain with their superior Western minds. If Ukraine puts combatants inside hospitals or schools, which they have done, then Russia is under no obligation to not hit them. clearly, Russia's track record of not bombing hospitals or schools with civilians inside isn't 100%, because that's almost impossible to do in a war this size without clairvoyant abilities - there is always uncertainty. we don't excuse those hits when they happen, but let's also not pretend that Ukraine hasn't been hitting Russian civilian buildings too.
so you support the struggle of the DPR and LPR against Ukraine?
sorry not totally clear, you talking about USA?
How did the US. get Putin to invade Ukraine? I'm trying to follow the logic but I keep getting stuck on that one.
Weird, I got this as a reply but then it was just gone:
*removed externally hosted image*
So the implication is that the Russian invasion was (and continues to be?) a false flag?
Yeah, I'm still not seeing how the US got Putin to go along with this false flag, any more details?
They were engaging in a dang whataboutism
Its a cheeky joke that is wondering why the United States has the moral authority to hypocritically police another state for actions that the USA engages in regularly and yet does not receive a fraction of the pushback.
It's also worth pointing out, however, that the USA has been stoking the flames of Russian-Ukraine conflict for decades beginning with Operation Aerodynamics.
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Yeah that's fair, these threads aren't great for getting a sense of what people's ideas are here. Especially since folks end up fairly antagonistic and the comments pile up. If you are curious, Here is a pretty good comment on the war, and I do recommend using the search function and just perusing the longer (especially sourced, read the sources!) and more effortful comments.
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