Something that’s been really getting under my skin lately is the way in which people go about defending abortion. Whenever I see someone argue with a anti-choice person, they always blindly skip over the underlying ideology in favor of throwing out scenarios they think the anti-choice person simply can’t disagree with allowing abortions in. Specifically, they bring up rape and incest as these examples. Why?
Because these are instances where the pregnancy isn’t the AFAB person’s “fault”. Do you see what I’m getting at? People are just tacitly going along with the idea that an AFAB person who is “irresponsible enough to get themselves pregnant” deserves to have their body repurposed and utilized as a commodity completely against their will for the crime of having sex. Just completely glossing over the blatantly fascistic idea that having your humanity, autonomy, and flesh constantly under threat of being ripped from you is a totally acceptable punishment for impurity and sexual deviancy.
Being anti-choice is a completely unacceptable position in all cases and Liberal’s tendencies to ignore the horrific implications of ideas like this in favor of “not furthering the divide/not falling for tribalism” is just another instance where Libs normalize and Uncritically propagate fascist talking points without even realizing it.
First post, sorry if this isn’t supposed to be here or is generally low quality/obvious.
liberals low key argue for eugenics whenever they talk about abortion
I think Capitalism is on some level inherently Darwinistic; what with the whole idea of an individualistic, supposedly merit-based system of rewarding human rights/value to those who make themselves a useful resource to their society. So the majority of their arguments tend towards eugenics, even when they try being woke, since they’re uncritical of Capitalism.
- You’re right. I think it’s a sub/conscious decision to ‘argue in their terms’, rather than try to change their underlying value system, but it has the effect of capitulating to that value system. Citations Needed did a really good pair of episodes (48&49) on abortion being ‘safe, legal and rare’ in media.
- Are you Redstarlesbian on twitter? I’ve seen a couple of people with that handle/username.
Edit: shit didn’t realise this was womenby. My bad.
No, I just thought of the name myself. Clearly not original lol. I’m rather new to leftism to be honest so thanks for posting that link anyways, Comrade. :)
Hi, first of all this totally belongs here, anything goes really serious or memes.
Secondly, I agree and I've been thinking about this a lot. Framing arguments from the rights point of view only serves to make their point look valid when in reality their point should be rejected out of hand. Some ideas are wrong, some ideas are harmful and some ideas are bad. We don't need to entertain these ideas or treat them as worthwhile - doing to only serves to make them seem worthwhile.
When you are defending abortion making a scenario where it would be acceptable to a right winger for an abortion to happen is pointless compromise, you are conceding that abortions should only happen in special, very extreme circumstances. You also aren't changing their or anyone else's mind.
Ultimately you need to make it very clear - bodily autonomy beats all. It is my choice to have a child or not, it is my body that is being barraged with hormones, changed permanently, risking long term damage. I am the one risking death. There are no special circumstances where it is or is not OK. Making abortions illegal or inaccessible to nothing more than an attempt to control and oppress us.
Definitely, thank you for expanding on what I wrote, I’m still getting used to this so my ideas might be a bit half-baked lol.
I worry if even having a dialog with staunch liberals is even a good idea. There are infinitely more libs than leftists and they’re ability to drown us out simply due to sheer numbers, inevitably warping the original context of our messages, is really worrisome. Even when they’re well meaning, they completely AstroTurf our movements and give right wingers an excuse to caricature our views as nonsensical since they’re fundamentally incompatible with the current neoliberal model libs are completely uncritical of. :/
your ideas are solid, and not inarticulate.
and yeah. I never associate with libs, and I never try to seem 'reasonable' to them. they're fucking fasch trash with better PR. which sounds but they're responsible for so much shit, and even more just by saturating society and normalizing that shit. and this? this is what a half baked thought looks like.