They can try but capital doesn't want to rock the boat like that, it's not profitable for them. If they try they're going to eat big loads of horseshit.
The thing here I've been saying is that capital also doesn't want to rock the boat by preventing it. The division in the country is such that if the trump base sees you stop him from doing this you're setting up an inevitable civil war in years to come whereas if they just roll over and accept it then that's not inevitable.
The only way they prevent this is with a military coup. I see more likelihood in them rolling over and accepting Trump than using force.
EDIT: On the other hand if you were ever looking for what Lenin called a "revolutionary moment" in which a state is weakened by splitting and a population is electrified... You should be paying really close attention to this.
I like the optimism of your edit but just don't see that matching the material reality of America. And if it is a revolutionary moment, then the result might be more likely that you will see many accounts on this site never post again.
What happens in the event that both Biden's administration and Trump's administration try to operate in parallel? Assuming they won't attempt a military approach first then the obvious path would be to simply start running their administration from a different location to the White House.
They would speak to states and administrations, seeking that they recognise and deal with them instead of the White House. This will likely work with blue states and cities, they would recognise Biden's administration. What happens when federal police are sent in by Trump to ensure federal buildings operate the way he wants?
There is the real potential for two competing administrations to attempt to run the country for a period of time. That is the very definition of an incredibly weakened state in my book. They will be much too busy competing with one another to take notice of revolutionary organising and the organising that does occur will get far less attention than it deserves based on the threat it represents.
And what happens as the population becomes more and more and more agitated by this dual competing administration situation? A slow slide towards physical conflict. The people become more and more electrified.
What could socialists do in those kinds of circumstances? Why accept either administration? Local agitation could lead to the formation of local worker councils to self administrate. Many areas will be willing to reject either Trump or Biden's admin in favour of local political power. There will be fascists that take advantage of this and socialists should too.
Assuming that is what's coming of course... My assumption would be that they wouldn't IMMEDIATELY roll over and accept it. They'd make some sort of go at getting capitulation to occur.
I think there is real potential and a real moment coming here. I don't think the left is strong enough to take the entire country but I do think the left could take advantage of the situation to catapult its organising efforts in that kind of scenario.
While in general yes, all past successful attempts at revolution have exploited a situation like this (arguably a socialist revolution is even impossible without parts of the ruling class warring against each other) such an optimistic scenario hinges entirely on there actually existing a deep split within the American bourgeoise. Ultimately we have no way of truly knowing if this is the case (unless we have some high ranking insiders here).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is about to be a revolution itself, but that it is a passing revolutionary moment that could be exploited for the goal of revolution if the forces that wanted it were strong and organised enough. I don't actually think either the left or right are strong enough to exploit it, not for the goal of taking the entire US, but I do think that if the above plays out then it is the greatest opportunity for gains that has been seen within the US within the entire period since ww2.
Absolutely, the American left should be prepared anyway, if not explicitly for this specific opportunity then at least generally for the ones coming next.
An interesting question I don't know the answer to but my gut feeling is that it would be very difficult to compare because the American civil war was fought for slavery which was an essential part of the existing economy, if it hurt the economy you could quite easily attribute that damage to the complete upheaval of the existing organisation of labour.
They can try but capital doesn’t want to rock the boat like that
someone made a thread these days making a point about how the american bourgeoisie is split in the haute bourgeoisie ("globalist", tied to finance and big tech, represented by dems and neocons, currently more powerful) and the national/industrial bourgeoisie (more reactionary, nationalist), and i'm not sure the latter would have such a big issue with destabilization if they think they can get actually depose their superiors or whatever as a consequence of it
not that i'm hopeful either way, just saying it's not an impossibility
They can try but capital doesn't want to rock the boat like that, it's not profitable for them. If they try they're going to eat big loads of horseshit.
The thing here I've been saying is that capital also doesn't want to rock the boat by preventing it. The division in the country is such that if the trump base sees you stop him from doing this you're setting up an inevitable civil war in years to come whereas if they just roll over and accept it then that's not inevitable.
The only way they prevent this is with a military coup. I see more likelihood in them rolling over and accepting Trump than using force.
EDIT: On the other hand if you were ever looking for what Lenin called a "revolutionary moment" in which a state is weakened by splitting and a population is electrified... You should be paying really close attention to this.
you overestimate the mayo eating Americans effort. they cant roll over fo grab the remote let alone coup a country
I like the optimism of your edit but just don't see that matching the material reality of America. And if it is a revolutionary moment, then the result might be more likely that you will see many accounts on this site never post again.
What happens in the event that both Biden's administration and Trump's administration try to operate in parallel? Assuming they won't attempt a military approach first then the obvious path would be to simply start running their administration from a different location to the White House.
They would speak to states and administrations, seeking that they recognise and deal with them instead of the White House. This will likely work with blue states and cities, they would recognise Biden's administration. What happens when federal police are sent in by Trump to ensure federal buildings operate the way he wants?
There is the real potential for two competing administrations to attempt to run the country for a period of time. That is the very definition of an incredibly weakened state in my book. They will be much too busy competing with one another to take notice of revolutionary organising and the organising that does occur will get far less attention than it deserves based on the threat it represents.
And what happens as the population becomes more and more and more agitated by this dual competing administration situation? A slow slide towards physical conflict. The people become more and more electrified.
What could socialists do in those kinds of circumstances? Why accept either administration? Local agitation could lead to the formation of local worker councils to self administrate. Many areas will be willing to reject either Trump or Biden's admin in favour of local political power. There will be fascists that take advantage of this and socialists should too.
Assuming that is what's coming of course... My assumption would be that they wouldn't IMMEDIATELY roll over and accept it. They'd make some sort of go at getting capitulation to occur.
I think there is real potential and a real moment coming here. I don't think the left is strong enough to take the entire country but I do think the left could take advantage of the situation to catapult its organising efforts in that kind of scenario.
While in general yes, all past successful attempts at revolution have exploited a situation like this (arguably a socialist revolution is even impossible without parts of the ruling class warring against each other) such an optimistic scenario hinges entirely on there actually existing a deep split within the American bourgeoise. Ultimately we have no way of truly knowing if this is the case (unless we have some high ranking insiders here).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is about to be a revolution itself, but that it is a passing revolutionary moment that could be exploited for the goal of revolution if the forces that wanted it were strong and organised enough. I don't actually think either the left or right are strong enough to exploit it, not for the goal of taking the entire US, but I do think that if the above plays out then it is the greatest opportunity for gains that has been seen within the US within the entire period since ww2.
Absolutely, the American left should be prepared anyway, if not explicitly for this specific opportunity then at least generally for the ones coming next.
Did the last civil war hurt the economy? Might be dumb to compare, but others might do it anyways.
An interesting question I don't know the answer to but my gut feeling is that it would be very difficult to compare because the American civil war was fought for slavery which was an essential part of the existing economy, if it hurt the economy you could quite easily attribute that damage to the complete upheaval of the existing organisation of labour.
someone made a thread these days making a point about how the american bourgeoisie is split in the haute bourgeoisie ("globalist", tied to finance and big tech, represented by dems and neocons, currently more powerful) and the national/industrial bourgeoisie (more reactionary, nationalist), and i'm not sure the latter would have such a big issue with destabilization if they think they can get actually depose their superiors or whatever as a consequence of it
not that i'm hopeful either way, just saying it's not an impossibility