• Comrade_Crab [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I don't even care about the volcel police anymore, I'm CUMMING

  • MasterCombine [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Absolutely fucking based.

    Now he just has to finish the job and take the coup plotters and their associates out for a picnic at the wall.

  • Mardoniush [she/her]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Somebody get this man a Cybersyn and start bootstrapping FALGSC.

    • ChudlyMcChubbyPants [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      According to Moore's Law and Cockshott and Cottrell, he's probably got one in his pocket.

      • sysgen [none/use name,they/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        There's still serious issues to central planning, such as the planning of services and the Local Knowledge Problem, so I think that centralized planning won't be practical for the entire economy just yet.

        • ChudlyMcChubbyPants [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          It's more practical than you think. Those are only problems in a bourgeois capitalist economy under a government that surrenders their seigniorage privileges to private oligarchs at interest.

          Most services planning can tolerate waste. You'll be feeding those people whether they render a service or not. You're not even paying for abstract labor, in that case, but for access to abstract labor. In particular, you should be looking to feed lots of people to have a decent amount of reserve capacity in health care and other basic human needs.

          The LKP is a political argument appealing to Protestant thrift and Whig progress, both of which appeals are more religious/cultural than economic in nature. Their argument here, as in the rest of neoliberal ideology, is for capture and maximization, not harmony and mission success. Approximations have served science quite well over the past hundred years and have been the basis of so much human interaction in literate and non-literate cultures for millennia. Again, overcapacity is only a problem for profit-taking.

          In this day and age where individual machines and commodities can POST their status to a web service every time the scanner cart rolls by, and production of useful articles can be almost disposably cheap, Mises and Hayek's concerns have largely been automated out of a job.

          • sysgen [none/use name,they/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            I've read Cockshott extensively, and I'm a CS grad that went through his fair share of optimization classes. I know about the algorithmic complexity of the Harmony method.

            I'm not making an argument of waste anyways, the Harmony metaheuristic can handle that. The argument I'm making is that central planning is not good for dealing with services, because their inputs and outputs are not easily measurable, nor are they easy to predict. Here the LKP shows itself - revealing the information to optimize sometimes can't even be done, not just because of motivation but also for social reasons. For example, making public the fact that person X came to see psychiatrist Z at time Y is counterproductive.

            There is also the issue of introducing new commodities and deciding how to decide which commodities to introduce. Why exactly this is an issue will be elaborated upon further.

            A requirement for cybernetic planning is the decision of a cost function. Cockshott gives this idea of a cost function SNLT. This is a good function, but it doesn't account for shortage, Cockshott thus proposes biasing towards the production of goods where, once sold on a consumer market - say for labour tokens - demand outstrips supply.

            This is actually equivalent to having this as a cost function, with m as the commodity vector and djdc as the derivative vector :

            float j = 0;  
            float[] djdc = new float[m.size()];  
            int i = 0  
             for (Commodity c : m){  
                j += c.endpointPrice()/c.averageSNLT();  
               djdc[i] = -Math.pow((c.endPointCost()/((c.averageSNLT - c.marginalSNLT())*(1/c.surplus()), 2); //The derivative of the cost function will be snlt/(snlt)'^2 as 1/x^2 is the derivative of c * 1/x and according to the chain rule  
                i++;
            }
            

            Indeed, minimizing this cost function will give people whatever they want most, and the ratio of $/SNLT should eventually converge towards 1 asssuming that one """dollar""" is one average abstract labour hour.

            The issue, is that this cost function only works well for consumer goods, not capital goods. This is because introducing price signals to goods that are also used as input is going to screw the fuck with the differentiability of the cost function, which isn't the good if you want to use an algorithm like the Harmony algorithm that relies on the gradient. So, as much as you want, you don't want capital goods to be assigned a price.

            This is an issue for innovation, because R&D requires capital goods, so you will need another way of doing R&D. Plus, if you are going to not have a tax, the R&D dollars need to come from somewhere or you have a varying price value ratiowhich also fucks with everything.

            So here is the solution - have the R&D department as well as the social services department run as a worker-coop. Add the R&D department in the I/O matrix as an industry with output being R&D units, and inputs being whatever you need, then an add an optimization constraint that x amount of R&D units must be produced. Then, have the now unbound inputs sold to those that make the request in direct labour tokens, and allow them to use these to produce goods that are not produced by the central planning system, which will then be sold for a net profit until a certain amount of surplus has been made for the co-op owners, after which it gets added to the central planning system if it is a physical good.

            And for services that are not fit for central planning, let them also operate as a worker-owned co-op.

            I think this achieves essentially all we could want, and avoids the issues of complete central planning for R&D as well as services.

            Of course, the cost function wouldn't be so simple, we also want to account for things like resources, and so on, but you catch the drift.

            Another nice way in which the failures of the USSR got fixed by technology, is that telecommunications and cryptography makes it possible to align the incentives of an industry consuming commodity x and the industry producing commodity z because if industry z were to underproduce, or if industry x were to overconsume, it would be immediately evident to their I/Os due to them not following the plan or losing commodities with a given crypto key, and the incentive of their producers/consumers would be to call them out because it means less work for them :)

            Also, I like to say that Hayek and Mises get obsoleted at the pace of en/n3 :)

            EDIT: Something I forgot to mention. Cockshott forgets that commodities are spatially discriminated. That is, a commodity produced in Volvograd and a commodity produced in Nairobi are not equivalent - they must be transported. Therefore, it would make sense to split each planning region into a few sub-regions where the transport costs are not too divergent, and then create IMPORT and EXPORT industries whose offload commodities in exchange for some other ratio of commodities from another region, and then the Harmony algorithm or some other metaheuristic can try to optimize it post-facto and update the average costs with transportation included.

            • ChudlyMcChubbyPants [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Why, yes, that's just about everything. Thank you so much for all this. :chavez-salute:

              Except for the en/n3 part for which I think I hate you. :)

    • blobjim [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      They should get China to develop a bit of 5G infrastructure in Bolivia.

  • Sushi_Desires
    ·
    4 years ago

    Thank god (and MAS). They are going to have to keep on their toes with classical neocons in the WH for the next 4 years :amerikkka:

    • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      the good thing is that now there wont be a right-wing faction in the military when biden's foreign team takes power, but its the US they could try fund a contras like group to destabilize bolivia

      • Bread_In_Baltimore [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        They do have organized catholic fascist groups in the country. I hope at the very least they are surveiling them closely.

      • ChudlyMcChubbyPants [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        Technically correct, but purging implies a more forceful, complete externalization. Permanent bans from the political sphere, permanent bans on leaving the country, house arrest, symbolic destruction of everything they created, for starters. I would prefer a response more like China's to the crime of taking US money to betray the revolution, as a matter of aesthetics and as a matter of price-setting. I don't properly have a dog in that fight, so I'll leave them to it.

        • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
          hexagon
          ·
          4 years ago

          you are right, but like i said in another comment its democratic socialism you just have to accept what you are given

  • BillyMays [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    If not the wall then at least the gulag. Demsoc’s are pro gulag’s right?

  • elgonzalors [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Well to be fair to Allende, the right wing killed a commander in chief, then they killed the next one in charge.

    • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      yeah, but during Fidel's visit to chile he told Allende to not risk a posible coup and purge the right-wing in the military but allende believe the military wouldnt try to do a coup at the time because they were a neutral faction and then pinochet became the main general in the army

  • keki_ya [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    smh classic Chapo bros celebrating red fascism. Rightists deserve civil liberties too 😡