WARSAW, Poland — Eastern European countries are raising alarm over Ukraine potentially being pushed into peace talks with Russia, amid growing partisanship in Washington, hesitation and delays in w…
Then why oh why aren’t you applying your reasoning to Russia? They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
If it’s all just pointless bloodshed over lines on a map, why isn’t Russia staying home? All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back.
They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
Why do you think Russia invaded, exactly ? they started the whole conflict after decades of making NATO encroachment along their borders a clear red line and being very clear what would happen if it was crossed
The US still kept meddling in Ukraine (and other post-soviet states), with Russia making every effort short of war to try and stop that - like offering loans just as large as the IMF loans for example, except without asking for the batshit insane austerity measures the latter did
Then the CIA backed a far-right coup there in 2014, and much of the following years were spent with NATO financing and training nazi soldiers there in preparation of trying to take back Crimea, while breaking the Minsk agreements in the meantime (I'll pass on the various atrocities and huge reframing of nazi criminals as national heroes in Ukraine there at the same period, since it's barely related, but it is worth a mention too)
Now both Ukrainian and Russian people are dying. A peace deal would stop that.
Lolyou think this is "indiscriminate"? Fuck, you should've zeen Fallujah or Vietnam or Korea. Ukraine has so much infrastructure and housing left in perfectly usable conditions. One of my major issues at the beginning was that I expected Russia to be much more violent and have been very surprised at how little of the violence has been on non-combatants
From what you wrote, do you have a major issue with, in your view, how little violence Russia has inflicted on civilians? Glad that you're disappointed.
My point stands. All that blabber does not justify the acts of Russia.
Lol fuck you
No I'm pleasantly surprised at how little violence against civilians has happened in Ukraine. They never for a moment did the all out war that the US has waged on so many countries. None of that justifies the acts of Russia, but it does mean that your view is so terribly skewed by your western propaganda that I can't imagine you being right about anything else lol
But also, you can look into my comment history if you want, for some good explanations on my position on Putin and Russia in this war. I have principles and material analyses. You have vibes
https://hexbear.net/comment/3746587
An example of a very simple version of why I critically support russia
No one is justifying the acts of Russia. They should not have invaded! But to act like there is no pretext to conflict and Ukraine is completely innocent is disingenuous. Peace is the better option.
Russia can cry about their red line all they want, but it wasn't in the treaty. The Revolutions of 1989 made it clear Eastern Europeans weren't interested in Russian control, the Balkans were unstable, and the Chechen & Georgian wars stoked fear in the former Soviet states. All NATO had to do was open their doors, and again, nothing in the treaty forbade it.
Well, no. No I'm not. I was just lazily pointing out that "Russia threw a series of temper tantrums so we should appease them" isn't a good argument either. My argument at least has the weight of a legally binding treaty behind it. As far as Ukraine goes, both powers were meddling there; Russia lost the game. That doesn't give them the right to invade, that was a choice that Putin made. He could have just as easily accepted that he's a loser, and tens of thousands OF HIS OWN PEOPLE would still be alive, not to mention Ukrainians.
Sooo... Your take is Putin should except he lost a game he wasn't playing? Really just a juvenile take. How often does a larger country go 'OH well let's just let this smaller former part of our country fuck with us.' ? Live in reality.
Not that Russia isn't taking casualties, but why do Ukraine supporters act like they're not the ones feeding their people into the meat grinder? Russia is dug in. You're sending children and old men into a turkey shoot.
Then why oh why aren’t you applying your reasoning to Russia? They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
If it’s all just pointless bloodshed over lines on a map, why isn’t Russia staying home? All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back.
Why do you think Russia invaded, exactly ? they started the whole conflict after decades of making NATO encroachment along their borders a clear red line and being very clear what would happen if it was crossed
The US still kept meddling in Ukraine (and other post-soviet states), with Russia making every effort short of war to try and stop that - like offering loans just as large as the IMF loans for example, except without asking for the batshit insane austerity measures the latter did
Then the CIA backed a far-right coup there in 2014, and much of the following years were spent with NATO financing and training nazi soldiers there in preparation of trying to take back Crimea, while breaking the Minsk agreements in the meantime (I'll pass on the various atrocities and huge reframing of nazi criminals as national heroes in Ukraine there at the same period, since it's barely related, but it is worth a mention too)
Now both Ukrainian and Russian people are dying. A peace deal would stop that.
I wonder what part of this is supposed to justify Russia's indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations
Lolyou think this is "indiscriminate"? Fuck, you should've zeen Fallujah or Vietnam or Korea. Ukraine has so much infrastructure and housing left in perfectly usable conditions. One of my major issues at the beginning was that I expected Russia to be much more violent and have been very surprised at how little of the violence has been on non-combatants
Russia has definitely not engaged in total war.
From what you wrote, do you have a major issue with, in your view, how little violence Russia has inflicted on civilians? Glad that you're disappointed.
My point stands. All that blabber does not justify the acts of Russia.
Lol fuck you No I'm pleasantly surprised at how little violence against civilians has happened in Ukraine. They never for a moment did the all out war that the US has waged on so many countries. None of that justifies the acts of Russia, but it does mean that your view is so terribly skewed by your western propaganda that I can't imagine you being right about anything else lol
But also, you can look into my comment history if you want, for some good explanations on my position on Putin and Russia in this war. I have principles and material analyses. You have vibes
https://hexbear.net/comment/3746587 An example of a very simple version of why I critically support russia
You support Russia because... of reddit?
LMAO 🤣
What?
Honestly, that's about as much sense as they ever make
Don't you steal enough from your tenants to be able to afford a reading tutor if you need one that badly?
Are they a landleech? I thought they were just a bootlicker and person of land apologist
You are a bot
You're two days late to the brigade.
0 points.
Better luck next time.
No one is justifying the acts of Russia. They should not have invaded! But to act like there is no pretext to conflict and Ukraine is completely innocent is disingenuous. Peace is the better option.
I agree with you that peace is a better option, although I'm pessimistic about the outcome of such talks at this point.
I wonder that too
Russia can cry about their red line all they want, but it wasn't in the treaty. The Revolutions of 1989 made it clear Eastern Europeans weren't interested in Russian control, the Balkans were unstable, and the Chechen & Georgian wars stoked fear in the former Soviet states. All NATO had to do was open their doors, and again, nothing in the treaty forbade it.
"I'm not legally prohibited from doing this" is rarely a good argument
I'm not sure there are any good arguments in geopolitics.
now you're just backpedaling
Well, no. No I'm not. I was just lazily pointing out that "Russia threw a series of temper tantrums so we should appease them" isn't a good argument either. My argument at least has the weight of a legally binding treaty behind it. As far as Ukraine goes, both powers were meddling there; Russia lost the game. That doesn't give them the right to invade, that was a choice that Putin made. He could have just as easily accepted that he's a loser, and tens of thousands OF HIS OWN PEOPLE would still be alive, not to mention Ukrainians.
Sooo... Your take is Putin should except he lost a game he wasn't playing? Really just a juvenile take. How often does a larger country go 'OH well let's just let this smaller former part of our country fuck with us.' ? Live in reality.
1989 Revolutions? Wholesale dismemberment of the USSR more like. And treaty didn't say it. The Russians sure as fuck did.
Not that Russia isn't taking casualties, but why do Ukraine supporters act like they're not the ones feeding their people into the meat grinder? Russia is dug in. You're sending children and old men into a turkey shoot.
Yeah, that's definitely what's going on here
We're talking about the fastest ways to stop bloodshed, not Russia. Do you think that ending the war is bad?