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Fears of peace talks
What kind of bullshit Orwellian headline is this? Peace is GOOD, stopping the bloodshed is GOOD. We WANT less people to die.
Inb4 "acksually killing thousands over lines in the sand is good" rhetoric
Fears of peace talks
Peace bad, war good!
Did I get that right?
The best way to defend your home is to stop the bombs from falling on it. Unless you're not talking about people's homes, families, and friends, but rather talking about some arbitrary line in the sand that people should be sent to die for.
Then why oh why aren’t you applying your reasoning to Russia? They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
If it’s all just pointless bloodshed over lines on a map, why isn’t Russia staying home? All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back.
They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
Why do you think Russia invaded, exactly ? they started the whole conflict after decades of making NATO encroachment along their borders a clear red line and being very clear what would happen if it was crossed
The US still kept meddling in Ukraine (and other post-soviet states), with Russia making every effort short of war to try and stop that - like offering loans just as large as the IMF loans for example, except without asking for the batshit insane austerity measures the latter did
Then the CIA backed a far-right coup there in 2014, and much of the following years were spent with NATO financing and training nazi soldiers there in preparation of trying to take back Crimea, while breaking the Minsk agreements in the meantime (I'll pass on the various atrocities and huge reframing of nazi criminals as national heroes in Ukraine there at the same period, since it's barely related, but it is worth a mention too)
Now both Ukrainian and Russian people are dying. A peace deal would stop that.
I wonder what part of this is supposed to justify Russia's indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations
Lolyou think this is "indiscriminate"? Fuck, you should've zeen Fallujah or Vietnam or Korea. Ukraine has so much infrastructure and housing left in perfectly usable conditions. One of my major issues at the beginning was that I expected Russia to be much more violent and have been very surprised at how little of the violence has been on non-combatants
From what you wrote, do you have a major issue with, in your view, how little violence Russia has inflicted on civilians? Glad that you're disappointed.
My point stands. All that blabber does not justify the acts of Russia.
Russia can cry about their red line all they want, but it wasn't in the treaty. The Revolutions of 1989 made it clear Eastern Europeans weren't interested in Russian control, the Balkans were unstable, and the Chechen & Georgian wars stoked fear in the former Soviet states. All NATO had to do was open their doors, and again, nothing in the treaty forbade it.
nothing in the treaty forbade it.
"I'm not legally prohibited from doing this" is rarely a good argument
1989 Revolutions? Wholesale dismemberment of the USSR more like. And treaty didn't say it. The Russians sure as fuck did.
All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back
Not that Russia isn't taking casualties, but why do Ukraine supporters act like they're not the ones feeding their people into the meat grinder? Russia is dug in. You're sending children and old men into a turkey shoot.
They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
Yeah, that's definitely what's going on here
We're talking about the fastest ways to stop bloodshed, not Russia. Do you think that ending the war is bad?
Have you ever come by the term: wicked problem? Secession movements are a prime example of a wicked problem.
They are, but while wicked problems (what Bostonians call "math") are very difficult to resolve to the satisfaction of everyone, some approaches are far worse than others.
Ukraine's approach -- failing to control the neo-Nazi paramilitaries in their midst, then allowing those paramilitaries to violate the Minsk agreements while running away from your largest neighbor and in to the arms of the U.S. empire, then skipping offramps in the lead up to the war and in its first months -- was a particularly bad one.
failing to control the neo-Nazi paramilitaries in their midst, then allowing those paramilitaries to violate the Minsk agreements
This. The later parts I have read about.
This is the point that's always lost on libs. They're full on blood and soil over soil and blood that isn't theirs. They can't imagine negotiationg peace so then people can stop dying.
I'm sorry I don't have the time or willpower to explain history to you.
I would be so ashamed of actually posting this
Just don't answer, it looks less ridiculous
Very intelligent.
Why are you posting hex emojis outside of hexbear? You know that's against hexbear rules.
How would Ukrainians lose their homes/die if a successful peace deal was brokered?
It would have to be a really shitty surrender treaty to have the clause "Ukraine will surrender all land to Russia and will also die anyways." Like you realize this is useless and dumb hyperbole right?
What do you honestly think is going to happen to Ukraine if theres a ceasefire? Without using cartoon logic
Do you think Russia went to Ukraine and they sat down in a nice comfy living room with a fireplace and discussed one country handing everything they have over to the other?
No, I'm aware of the fact that there's an actual war going on.
That is somehow still more likely than Russia completely annexing Ukraine with less than half the East in their control
I'm sure you weren't one of the people celebrating whenever someone would post a video of that happening to a Russian on Reddit.
Reddit reddit reddit. That's all you children talk about. Why don't you just give in and make an account? It's all you talk about anyway.
You didnt deny it, which wouldve been easy. Something you dont wanna talk about?
The famine that affected the whole USSR, of which Ukraine was a part? What does that have to do with Russia, let along the "Tzar"?
If Ukraine enters peace talks now, have they gained anything or put their country in a better position since the original peace talks, which were sabotaged by Boris Johnson and British intelligence, over a year ago? Have they gained any significant territory since what was proposed then? Is their army in a stronger position? Are any gains since then worth the losses?
Just looking at it from a purely pragmatic and realpolitik perspective, I don't see how anyone can argue that Ukraine has gained anything significant in this stalemate of a conflict. If they get similar results now, as what was on the table originally at the first peace talks, it means that their Western backers essentially sold a pipe dream to Ukraine that never materialised. Is the collective West ready to explain that to Ukraine, and the rest of the world? That they used Ukraine as a testbed for their weaponry against Russia, sold Ukraine a utopian fantasy that they'd be able to regain significant territory using Western weapons and tactics which never happened, and hundreds of tens to hundreds of thousands of people got killed or injured to accomplish very little.
Turns out that an offensive is really hard. Who would've thought? Definitely not centuries of military doctrine.
looks like they got back a bit east of Kharkiv & to the north bank of the Dneipr---long before this last big 'offensive' tho. Russia might've given that pittance of territory up in a peace deal ooth.
These Baltic and Polish dipshits should just be airdropped on to the frontlines if they want the war to continue so badly.
Without parachutes.
Ik, they are always so toxic, coming in and attacking people under the flimsiest pretext
Oh god I used a reaction emote oh fuck somebody please stop me
Please upvote this comment if you are a liberal and this headline gave you pause and maybe a nagging "are we the baddies?" moment of reflection
Not upvoting as a diehard commie, just to respect the vote. Would love to see an actual poll of libs on this
And then I read the article and remembered: reality is more complicated then good-bad.
A sociopath told you that you aren't capable of having moral judgements about people dying and that you needed to listen to vetted experts instead. It's not complicated actually. I contend that pointless death is in fact a bad thing
If you think there's glory in these deaths then stop cheering from the backfield and take the place of someone gang pressed off the street.
Even if I would do that I suppose you wouldn't be happier with the situation. And guess what, neither would I.
But that's what you're saying, right? These deaths are valuable just for the sake of fighting in some abstract sense? Because the bad guy is bad?
No, as I said in my first answer, there are no generally right or wrong answers. There are people dying because of some vanity project of the rich and powerful. I also hold the opinion, that those shall be prevented at all costs. But if my information on the conflict is correct and this war started as a civil war on the topic of secession, then the question get's hard to answer almost instantly, and also highly individual.
fears of peace
Sounds about right when it comes to what wine cave warriors crave and what they fear losing.
Show
Fears of peace talks
Seems like mask off moment. Now i will read the comments if i suspect the resident liberal warmongers are still on their lines.
EDIT: The condensed copium cloud over liberal posts is even denser than imagined, with multiple layers.
my thought as well.
How can anyone has fears of peace talks. jfc
...I'm sure Ukraine would gladly put down their arms and watch Russia fight eastern European countries instead, if they really want to make this their fight instead of Ukraine's.
and 
