Damn, we found their trigger word! Lesser evil! LESSER EVIL!
It's funny how hypocritical you are right now, too. You wanna label "liberals" as fascist, but get all pissy when the same happens to you with the same amount of credibility.
What's funny is that you lot all seem to fail to realize that "Liberalism" is not inherently left or right wing, unless you are a reductionist who doesn't believe that social liberalism exists and only believe Classic Liberalism exists. You all talk big about your political knowledge and how nuanced your beliefs are, and then you fall victim to the classic conservative notion of reductionism. Seeing "lib" used as an insult around here is just as hilariously pathetic as all the "snowflake" shit
I never called a lib a fascist. Liberalism is inherently right wing because its the ideology of capitalism. I understand that there's distinctions between different types of liberals, and between them and fascists. I did call libs like you and the other poster, to use their phrase "the lesser evil" because you support capital but arent fascists.
If you don't like being lumped in with other right wing tendencies then stop supporting capital. Its not our fault that reality is marxist
Why are you lot so obsessed with reddit? Can't you leave that place behind? I mean, haven't you ever thought that people on reddit talk the way they do because its how most people online in general talk? Reddit didn't invent linguistic trope. I digress.
And what makes you think I am a libertarian? What makes you think I support capitalism? Just because I don't directly support your exact ideology doesn't mean you get to straw man the criticism away. You and your ilk with that and ad hominem, or some other fallacy. Never able to directly hold an argument on it's own merits. It's fuckin hilarious lmao
Yes I go into a phone booth as my normal commie antifa self and come out as Chudly Dugsfermpt local pool supply company owner and lover of Milton Friedman
meanwhile in the real world it's liberals and fascists who are joined at the hip https://orgrad.wordpress.com/articles/liberalism-the-two-faced-tyranny-of-wealth/
Yes, every night I stop being a bisexual trans communist and put on my MAGA-Man leotard superhero suit and start ranting about immigrants and the woke gender ideology to people on the street
I think that’s awful an immature behavior.
When you fight idiocy with aggression (at least on social media) you just get idiots who think they must be right and start truth social or something
I find that a lot of crazy right wingers do it to “own the libs” or get a rise out of their supposed enemies.
It’s all just a sports game to people like that.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Almost nobody posts on the internet trying to challenge and reconsider their beliefs, so it’s not like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
Does ignoring the fascists make them go away? Please.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
So now you're accusing us of making fascists more fascist, as an excuse for your ridiculous theory of just ignoring fascism.
like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
Its not even about changing their minds. Its about forcing them out of shared spaces. Fascists should driven out, shamed, harassed, and redacted.
What you think is lib bullshit that gets your spaces infiltrated and taken over by fascists and reactionaries.
You want to ignore them fine, but don't condescend to people who confront them and drive them out of shared spaces as if you have a more "mature" solution. Your solution is literally "if i close my eyes they go away" baby logic
We actually study history and read shit. Like I just finished reading Long Walk to Freedom & Armed and Dangerous, both are a fairly good firsthand on how "fascists" respond to non-violence and only start to have reservations when the oppressed shoot back.
It’s just polarizing.
You’re just making people more staunch in their beliefs or just annoying people who would rather not deal with aggression (like myself)
If your goal is to drive people away and make a space where everyone just agrees with you all the time then it’s effective.
When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Literal fascist talking point. "Look what you made me do"
I mean that’s what I think, at least
Investigate before you start thinking next time. Are trans children out there looking for fights just by existing or is your belief that fascists need to be provoked first founded on nothing but bullshit?
Yknow I’m talking about on social media platforms, right?
Frothing at the mouth raging at someone on a social media platform doesn’t do anything but cause more radicalization, so I just ignore people instead. I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
You won't push back on fascists, but you can't shut up when pushing back against people who believe in pushing back fascism.
cause more radicalization
Its been pointed out multiple times now that this is literally a fascist talking point. Pushing back against fascism is not what makes people fascist. In fact its how we protect the targets of fascism on shared spaces online or off.
As has also been pointed out to you some people just existing is seen as an incitement by fascists. What are they supposed to do? They can't just ignore threats and the invalidation of their humanity. That you can shut your eyes to that says a lot about you.
Regardless of handwringing about it, the fact remains that we've driven out and proud fascists off of lemmy instances that we're federated with. The simple existence of hexbear pulls the Lemmy overton window so far left that social democrats are now the right wingers - this is a good thing.
The -oid suffix, as an insult, has a long history of ableism and racism. Maybe you should work on being better instead of projecting your bigotry by appropriating Marxist-flavored gotchas
Here's a bare-bones answer to get whether or not you're a right-winger or Left-winger. I emphasize again, this is a bare-bones answer that's leaving out a lot of other stuff.
Who should have ownership over the means of production, or Capital Goods if you want to use non-marxist lingo. If you say the working class should have ownership over the means of production then you're left-wing. If you say capitalists should have ownership over the means of production then you're right-wing.
Yeah I can get behind this, and I'd say you're right that it's the bare-bones definition of the economic left vs right divide.
But then you have people who will look at market socialists, anarchists, or some other brand of leftism and call them secret fascists or something like that. It's my experience (and yours may differ) that MLs are eager to insist that theirs is the only way and dismiss the rest.
Not all MLs are this dogmatic. But when a leftist is this dogmatic, they always seem to be ML
fake Marxists who ignore the basics of marxist? heck yeah we hate them. I've yet to see any fake anarchists or MLs on hexbear that werent immediately banned tho
But then you have people who will look at market socialists, anarchists, or some other brand of leftism and call them secret fascists or something like that. It's my experience (and yours may differ) that MLs are eager to insist that theirs is the only way and dismiss the rest
What you're describing is the analysis of Marxism-Leninism on other socialist tendencies based off of the historical materialist end results of their respective ideologies. A very simple example of this would be is how Marxists would prod anarchists as being more idealist over materialist over the fact that the more idealist members of the anarchist faction advocate for the immediate and total abolishment of the penal system can't reconciliate the fact that anarchists reestablished the penal system during the Spanish Civil War on their turf due to the material conditions they faced forcing them to make that decision. There's a lot more to this discussion that's being left out with plenty of worthwhile perspectives from all Left factions on the civil war in regards to this and much more.
It's in this regard that marxists will ruthlessly critique all ideological threads and each other all in the name of finding the most materially realistic path to Socialism within their respective home countries - and historically, revolution is the only means to the goal of establishing the dictatorship of the proletariat and a scientific socialist society.
There is not a valid distinction between economic left and political left, or economic right and political right.
There is the left and its various tendencies and ideologies (anarchists, communists, MLs, etc.) And the right and its various tendencies (liberals, conservatives, libertarians, fascists etc.)
Lemmy has some very aggressive communists.
I’ve been lucky enough to dodge the crazy right wingers though.
No. It must be lib magic
I’m fine with the lesser of two evils.
Thats a real self own. Do you think you voted away the "greater evil", or libs did anything to make them go away?
You are the lesser evil. And we're not fine with you.
Ok, buddy
I'm not your buddy lib. Why would i be your buddy when you think I'm comparable to a fascist?
I'm supposed to trip over myself to be civil to you when you call us the "lesser evil" to fascism?
Lol
Damn, we found their trigger word! Lesser evil! LESSER EVIL!
It's funny how hypocritical you are right now, too. You wanna label "liberals" as fascist, but get all pissy when the same happens to you with the same amount of credibility.
What's funny is that you lot all seem to fail to realize that "Liberalism" is not inherently left or right wing, unless you are a reductionist who doesn't believe that social liberalism exists and only believe Classic Liberalism exists. You all talk big about your political knowledge and how nuanced your beliefs are, and then you fall victim to the classic conservative notion of reductionism. Seeing "lib" used as an insult around here is just as hilariously pathetic as all the "snowflake" shit
Terminal reddit brained response
I never called a lib a fascist. Liberalism is inherently right wing because its the ideology of capitalism. I understand that there's distinctions between different types of liberals, and between them and fascists. I did call libs like you and the other poster, to use their phrase "the lesser evil" because you support capital but arent fascists.
If you don't like being lumped in with other right wing tendencies then stop supporting capital. Its not our fault that reality is marxist
I enjoyed the whiplash from screaming a taunt at you like the most obnoxious kid on the playground into that detached passive aggressive mode.
Why are you lot so obsessed with reddit? Can't you leave that place behind? I mean, haven't you ever thought that people on reddit talk the way they do because its how most people online in general talk? Reddit didn't invent linguistic trope. I digress.
And what makes you think I am a libertarian? What makes you think I support capitalism? Just because I don't directly support your exact ideology doesn't mean you get to straw man the criticism away. You and your ilk with that and ad hominem, or some other fallacy. Never able to directly hold an argument on it's own merits. It's fuckin hilarious lmao
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Who the fuck is anita sarkeesian?
And what makes you think I'm a liberal?
This is their fourth attempt at this comment
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You know what I'll take it
Nah I'm pretty sure it's the same reason why Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus are never seen in a room together
Yes I go into a phone booth as my normal commie antifa self and come out as Chudly Dugsfermpt local pool supply company owner and lover of Milton Friedman
meanwhile in the real world it's liberals and fascists who are joined at the hip https://orgrad.wordpress.com/articles/liberalism-the-two-faced-tyranny-of-wealth/
Wait are you trying to say we're the same people?
Or that the reason is so simple why we're not in the same rooms together that a child should be able to understand it?
I think the implication is we're addicted to a magical potion that transforms us into an evil alter ego who causes mischief in town
And then we get to hang out with Abbott and Costello
Sounds rad
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It's just a single monk:
Yeah I might be pushing for universal liberation during the day but at night I put on my maga hat and try to create fun new unjust hierarchies /s
you're either a hilarious poster or a sad joke
yeah sure the people who want everyone fed and housed for free and who require pronouns are right wing.
Yes, every night I stop being a bisexual trans communist and put on my MAGA-Man leotard superhero suit and start ranting about immigrants and the woke gender ideology to people on the street
Almost like the very aggressive communists have a nose for right wing nut jobs and relentlessly hound them until they log out
I think that’s awful an immature behavior. When you fight idiocy with aggression (at least on social media) you just get idiots who think they must be right and start truth social or something
How do you deal with fascists? Facts and logic in the free marketplace of ideas(tm)?
I usually just ignore them.
I find that a lot of crazy right wingers do it to “own the libs” or get a rise out of their supposed enemies. It’s all just a sports game to people like that.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Almost nobody posts on the internet trying to challenge and reconsider their beliefs, so it’s not like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
I mean that’s what I think, at least
Does ignoring the fascists make them go away? Please.
So now you're accusing us of making fascists more fascist, as an excuse for your ridiculous theory of just ignoring fascism.
Its not even about changing their minds. Its about forcing them out of shared spaces. Fascists should driven out, shamed, harassed, and redacted.
What you think is lib bullshit that gets your spaces infiltrated and taken over by fascists and reactionaries.
You want to ignore them fine, but don't condescend to people who confront them and drive them out of shared spaces as if you have a more "mature" solution. Your solution is literally "if i close my eyes they go away" baby logic
And here we see an aggressive communist in the wild. You have a good day, dude
You said a bunch a bullshit and got called on it. Agressive much tankie.
Fuck all the way off dude
Awe well I still hope you have a good day.
We actually study history and read shit. Like I just finished reading Long Walk to Freedom & Armed and Dangerous, both are a fairly good firsthand on how "fascists" respond to non-violence and only start to have reservations when the oppressed shoot back.
Oh and
"The real fascists are the fascists who won't let me fascist 😭"
Cool story bro
Why is aggressive a bad thing?
It’s just polarizing. You’re just making people more staunch in their beliefs or just annoying people who would rather not deal with aggression (like myself)
If your goal is to drive people away and make a space where everyone just agrees with you all the time then it’s effective.
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Literal fascist talking point. "Look what you made me do"
Investigate before you start thinking next time. Are trans children out there looking for fights just by existing or is your belief that fascists need to be provoked first founded on nothing but bullshit?
Thanks for ignoring the people who want us dead, very mature and polite of you!!!!
Yknow I’m talking about on social media platforms, right?
Frothing at the mouth raging at someone on a social media platform doesn’t do anything but cause more radicalization, so I just ignore people instead. I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
Are you deadass actually suggesting that people are transphobic ableist nazis because communists go after nazis online?
or are you saying that it radicalizes more people into avid antifacsist communists, which is an unambiguously good thing (unless youre on team nazi)
This is a real question, please answer.
You won't push back on fascists, but you can't shut up when pushing back against people who believe in pushing back fascism.
Its been pointed out multiple times now that this is literally a fascist talking point. Pushing back against fascism is not what makes people fascist. In fact its how we protect the targets of fascism on shared spaces online or off.
As has also been pointed out to you some people just existing is seen as an incitement by fascists. What are they supposed to do? They can't just ignore threats and the invalidation of their humanity. That you can shut your eyes to that says a lot about you.
They can do whatever they want.
I don’t care what other people do, I just ignore people I don’t think are worth failing with.
And yeah pass judgement if you want, but how I choose to deal with people on the internet is up to me.
Regardless of handwringing about it, the fact remains that we've driven out and proud fascists off of lemmy instances that we're federated with. The simple existence of hexbear pulls the Lemmy overton window so far left that social democrats are now the right wingers - this is a good thing.
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Are you fucking kidding me m8?
This shit is ridiculous, look at what you posted!!
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Which sounds great until you realize that many of them define right wing nut jobs as anyone who's not a Marxist-Leninist
Edit: LMAO exhibit A below me. "We're not sectarian, they're just not real leftists." Yeah guys, you're doing exactly what I said
You're allowed to be most branches of socialist or anarchist without us considering you right wing, we are a non-sectarian space.
In much of human behavior there tends to be a divide between what we say and what we do. This is no exception
we are highly anti sectarian, youre just a natoid anarcho bidenist, not a leftist
The -oid suffix, as an insult, has a long history of ableism and racism. Maybe you should work on being better instead of projecting your bigotry by appropriating Marxist-flavored gotchas
Im an autistic trans person, but guess some NT Cishet would know more about bigotry than me
I don't care how anyone identifies, you're using bigoted language
Actually it is, we enforce our anti-sectarian rules.
You got a trite truism for every time you say shit without investigating it and are told you're wrong about it?
Here's a bare-bones answer to get whether or not you're a right-winger or Left-winger. I emphasize again, this is a bare-bones answer that's leaving out a lot of other stuff.
Who should have ownership over the means of production, or Capital Goods if you want to use non-marxist lingo. If you say the working class should have ownership over the means of production then you're left-wing. If you say capitalists should have ownership over the means of production then you're right-wing.
Yeah I can get behind this, and I'd say you're right that it's the bare-bones definition of the economic left vs right divide.
But then you have people who will look at market socialists, anarchists, or some other brand of leftism and call them secret fascists or something like that. It's my experience (and yours may differ) that MLs are eager to insist that theirs is the only way and dismiss the rest.
Not all MLs are this dogmatic. But when a leftist is this dogmatic, they always seem to be ML
fake Marxists who ignore the basics of marxist? heck yeah we hate them. I've yet to see any fake anarchists or MLs on hexbear that werent immediately banned tho
What you're describing is the analysis of Marxism-Leninism on other socialist tendencies based off of the historical materialist end results of their respective ideologies. A very simple example of this would be is how Marxists would prod anarchists as being more idealist over materialist over the fact that the more idealist members of the anarchist faction advocate for the immediate and total abolishment of the penal system can't reconciliate the fact that anarchists reestablished the penal system during the Spanish Civil War on their turf due to the material conditions they faced forcing them to make that decision. There's a lot more to this discussion that's being left out with plenty of worthwhile perspectives from all Left factions on the civil war in regards to this and much more.
It's in this regard that marxists will ruthlessly critique all ideological threads and each other all in the name of finding the most materially realistic path to Socialism within their respective home countries - and historically, revolution is the only means to the goal of establishing the dictatorship of the proletariat and a scientific socialist society.
There is not a valid distinction between economic left and political left, or economic right and political right.
There is the left and its various tendencies and ideologies (anarchists, communists, MLs, etc.) And the right and its various tendencies (liberals, conservatives, libertarians, fascists etc.)
If your upset about your ideological proximity to conservatives, it sounds like a you problem
The people I see deploying this take the most are the same people who think Democrats are communists
It's like studying an ecosystem; once you see the fascists, the aggression of the communists suddenly makes sense