Permanently Deleted

  • Are_Euclidding_Me [e/em/eir]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Yeah, there have been theologians for hundreds of years and some of them have talked about exactly this issue! I even read some in school, but, of course, I don't remember who it was because it's been a decade and I'm an atheist.

    So I'll give a list of theologians that I know I've read, and that at least will give you a starting point for who to look at if you'd like to do more research and maybe find some passages.

    St Thomas Aquinas is possibly the most famous theologian ever. I kind of hate him though and wouldn't really suggest him except as a last resort.

    St Augustine I really, really liked. He is the theologian who was closest to convincing me to convert to christianity. He's very approachable.

    St Anselm I think was the guy who came up with an absolutely ridiculous "proof" of the existence of god that I still sometimes think about and chuckle. The "ontological argument" I think it's called. But I seem to remember he's a bit of a one-trick pony, so probably he didn't write anything on the omniscience of god.

    Montaigne, Pascal, and Descartes aren't exactly theologians, but they all wrote about religion, and in a very specific "enlightenment man of science" kind of way that's pretty interesting.

    Spinoza was fun, but I remember him being rather confusing. He was also more into politics than purely religion, if I remember right.

    Kierkegaard was also really, really interesting. His thoughts on the (almost) sacrifice of Isaac were fascinating, and might be relevant to this question, actually.

    And then there's Paradise Lost, which is fiction, but a very philosophical kind of fiction. It's extremely misogynist, like, I'm talking, Eve can't understand cosmology unless Adam is the one explaining it to her misogynist. Adam and an angel talk for hours while Eve wanders around preparing food for them, it's kind of gross. But, the bits where Lucifer is talking about his fall were super duper interesting, and possibly relevant here. Did god know what Lucifer was thinking and planning? If so, why did god let him go through with it? If not, is god really omniscient? And, another little wrinkle, some theologians and philosophers (I don't remember if Milton is in this camp) think humans have free will, but angels do not. Which is, well, huh, I don't even know what sentience looks like without (apparent) free will, you know?

    I don't know if any of these suggestions help! But know that you're not the first to be very confused by god and his omniscience. It's an interesting philosophical problem, absolutely. (Of course, the atheist answer is extremely easy: god doesn't fucking exist, there is no greater "plan", each of us must find our own path through life and imbue that path, and that life, with meaning ourselves.)

    • Mardoniush [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Huh, I much prefer Aquinas to Augustine. Augustine always comes across as a self hating misogynist asshole.

      For a more modern Catholic perspective, De Chardin has become widely accepted, at least at the core, by Catholics both conservative and progressive

      • Are_Euclidding_Me [e/em/eir]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Oh, is Augustine a misogynist too? The self-hatred I picked up on, the misogyny I missed, because I was much, much less sensitive to it a decade ago. Ah well, live and learn, and maybe don't read Augustine after all!

        I've never heard of De Chardin, I think he must be too recent for the school I went to. It's one of the real downsides of doing a "classics" or "western cannon" sort of program, you never get to read anything from the last 50 years or so.

        • Mardoniush [she/her]
          ·
          1 year ago

          De Chardin gets a lot of traction in transhumanist circles since he helped develop the concepts of the Noosphere and the Omega Point. He's in some ways the Catholic counterpart to Russian Orthodox Cosmists.

          Unfortunately none of them read him and those that did misinterpreted his entire thesis far too literally

    • TraschcanOfIdeology [they/them, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Spinoza was fun, but I remember him being rather confusing. He was also more into politics than purely religion, if I remember right.

      Spinoza is a wonderful philosopher, if you don't read him directly as a first approach. His formatting is weird, and doesn't quite follow a through line. Reading philosophers who have read all of Spinoza and can write about the key concepts, or how they are present through his work is a much better way to get to know him.

      My recommendation to get started is Arne Naess' writings on Spinoza and Ecology.