In this context, it's matters related to government, politicians, or the general culture of a country, in which there are two or more major camps of conflicting opinions, where a good deal of people in one or more of those camps view the other camp as evil because of their view.
If the post is in a community where only one of the camps is significantly present, but the post is attacking the other camp, it is still political.
Why do you ask? Are you hoping to expose some inconsistency in my definition? Maybe use it to call something I like political with the expectation that I'll disagree with you? Or were you expecting my definition to be biased, calling something political that shouldn't be, so that you could expose me as a moustache-twirling villain?
We complainers aren’t saying they can’t post about politics, just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space.
I also clarified that it has to be contentious, in a way where people condemn each other for thinking differently.
Here are some non-political memes posted in this community in the past hour:
https://lemmy.ml/post/5184036
https://lemmy.ml/post/5185652
https://lemmy.ml/post/5185650
https://lemmy.ml/post/5186256
https://lemmy.ml/post/5186204
I don't think "I don't like my job" is politically divisive. You don't really get people up in arms about it unless you're complaining about capitalism or work in general. Even boomers have their "I'd rather be fishing" meme about it.
I don't think "I don't like my job" is politically divisive.
This is absolutely a political statement. Your work and conditions are political and can be changed only through seizing control and unionization, both political actions.
With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property: the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property, but even at this early stage it corresponds perfectly to the definition of modern economists who call it the power of disposing of the labour-power of others. Division of labour and private property are, moreover, identical expressions: in the one the same thing is affirmed with reference to activity as is affirmed in the other with reference to the product of the activity.
Further, the division of labour implies the contradiction between the interest of the separate individual or the individual family and the communal interest of all individuals who have intercourse with one another. And indeed, this communal interest does not exist merely in the imagination, as the “general interest,” but first of all in reality, as the mutual interdependence of the individuals among whom the labour is divided. And finally, the division of labour offers us the first example of how, as long as man remains in natural society, that is, as long as a cleavage exists between the particular and the common interest, as long, therefore, as activity is not voluntarily, but naturally, divided, man’s own deed becomes an alien power opposed to him, which enslaves him instead of being controlled by him. For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now.
Marx. The German Ideology.
Tl:DR work under capitalism fucking sucks because it's exploiting us and not fighting for your liberation is politically divisive
Because claiming to be "nonpolitical" continues to mean wishing to be willfully ignorant and comfortably within the realm of political norms you're so used to that you just don't notice them.
People have a lot to say about my position on something. Should i examine some of my underlying assumptions and unexamined opinions regarding this issue?
I've had this exact conversation with an irl friend about how life is political, and you don't get to pretend that your worldview is somehow so above it all and apolitical so that you can tell other people to stop posting memes in the meme channel.
"I don't like my job" is so political people bled and died to the american government for your right to not have to do it 80 hours a week as a 12 year old.
You're pretty upset that I asked a question aren't you? I wonder why that is.
Government and politicians I think are pretty self explanatory and I would agree those are inherently political, no argument there.
What do you think is part of a general culture of a country, or not? How would you define culture that has conflicting opinions? Is it solely up to your discretion, or would you agree that if anyone has any disagreement about a meme that would make it automatically political?
Is this one political because it references the FBI, a governmental organization? https://startrek.website/post/1847371 I would argue that it is political.
Is this one political because it references culture related to advertising in capitalism? I would think everyone should agree that any reference to or commentary of an economic system is inherently political because of course economic systems are controversial. I don't see how anyone could argue that references to a combination of two major brands isn't a commentary on marketing: https://programming.dev/post/3200916
I mean this one references politics so it's clearly political right? https://lemm.ee/post/8502748
I'm just curious about what you and others think is political versus not. You can't have a discussion about if something should or should not be allowed if you can't clearly define the boundaries of that thing. I find the discussion around what is and isn't politics to be an interesting one, that's all.
Not upset, just suspicious because I've seen you asking that question a lot.
Obviously what I consider political is up to my discretion, but I'm pretty sure the general definition does not include contentious memes, and mine doesn't either because I gave a clause about one side considering the other side evil because of it.
In general, if a person asks themselves "is what I'm posting political?" they can answer correctly 95% of the time, and the 5% of edge cases won't upset 95% of the complainers.
What I meant was that anyone can ask themselves if it's political, and 95% of the time they'll get it right by the standards of 95% of the people who don't like politics.
Everyone has their own threshold for what's political. Some people say everything is political. Some people say it's only political if it relates to conflict between politicians.
I'm saying in 95% of cases, 95% of people can agree on what is and isn't political.
When people complain about political memes, they're usually complaining about blatantly political posts, like ones making fun of the republican party, not memes that happen to feature Black people.
Lmao. The FBI: famously non-political government organization that murders activists as easily as one can breath air.
And Microsoft: famously non-political company that bribes lobbies the u.s government constantly to gain monopoly over their market, works hand-in-hand with federal agencies to monitor system users, and regularly influences city, state, and national politics in the pursuit of subsidies of the American worker in order to further boost their already gross profit margins.
No you have to be missing a brain to think monopolies don't have anything to do with politics.
Stealing a line from something I saw earlier. If you don't like the memes just ignore them like you do the homeless people you walk by, non-politically.
Oh god. How thick can you be? You did not read correctly, indeed. The question was if the meme was political.
And it clearly is, since it references political entities and distributes the ideology of whoever is OP of the meme to a bunch of unsuspecting lurkers that falsely assume it's non-political. Also the fact that you disagree about what is and what isn't political makes it political
Remove the hexbear instance and you'll see that most of the comments agree on what is and isn't politics, even thought their feelings towards X and Y political party differ.
It's seems it's just you guys creating a shit storm of nonsense and everybody else kinda getting along despite their differences.
That must explain why all those meme focused communities, especially the "dank" and "edgy" ones radicalized a generation of white boys to worship Andrew tate and why we've got 10 year olds saying kill all gays and fuck women to popular "meme" streamers.
Wow what a surprise the person complaining about memes being too political also thinks that the memes that radicalized fascists should still be kept around.
You're literally the white moderate holding back progress MLK Jr described.
There's no point arguing with you since you can't understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is nor can you read what I previously wrote.
since you can't understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is
You think the basic concept of a meme is an increasingly stale chuckle you get while being in an ever-smaller bubble world because the world outside of that is scary and uncomfortable to you.
Keep your head in the sand as deep and long as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that almost everything imaginable has some intersectional political context, including whining about things being too political.
You may not notice it when you're comfortable and used to it, but it's there.
Simple as that.
The only thing simple about it is your willful ignorance and the ever-smaller bubble world you're trying to hold together because the world outside of it is scary and political.
I get what you mean, even thought I don't entirely agree.
If you go to extremes, everything can be political. That's not the reality more often than not.
Also, I don't mind politics, and I enjoy different opinions. However, I don't think memes where the point is clearly to annoy or trigger any political party or political movement belong here though.
In sum, I respect and appreciate any and all political opinions, on political centric communities.
I just want to look at stupid memes and unwind, I don't want to see the the usual left/right/capitalist/socialist/communist arguments.
Again, what you call your common sense as an arbitrary and selfish metric that others clearly do not agree with, including here in this thread.
If you don't have common sense then I'm afraid I can't help you understand what is political and what isn't.
That's an impressive amount of textual masturbation there.
I'm done wasting my time with this crap.
Alas, you must go, the nonpolitical logical humans of Rationalia require your presence. Be on your way, oh nonpolitical arbiter of what is and isn't common sense.
Extremes are based on common sense. If you don't have common sense then I'm afraid I can't help you understand what is political and what isn't.
FUCKIN LMAO and who defines what common sense is? Is there a list of criteria for something to be considered common sense that is generally accepted? I must have missed that checklist.
When you get to the size of a monopoly like that, you operate on such a massive scale that your very existence as a company, and the actions required to grow and sustain it, is orders of magnitude more politcal than say, the small-scale relationship between a restaurant owner and their employees, which is also inherently politcal.
Acknowledging the fact that politics exist is not inherently political. Please explain how that third meme is even remotely political?
Regardless, the lack of a clear and simple political-or-not binary is not an excuse to avoid moderation. The political nature of some things will be argued and some things will slip through the cracks. It happens with all spectrums. But on the other hand, some things are so clearly political that it's nigh impossible to argue they're not. I'm sure you can see the massive difference in a meme about Microsoft shoes and a meme about Trump or Biden bad. Those clear extremely political memes are the ones people want banned to their own communities.
And to be clear, I actually like political memes. I just find your rebuttal to be in bad taste.
So basically you want to go with "whatever the mods think in their gut is political, is political" and expect that you'll have a well moderated community with that as your rule?
I mean, you do you, but that doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.
If you have to ask why the 3rd meme is political I encourage you to go read the thread beneath it. Look at how much discussion and conflict it caused. It's clearly political and basically that entire thread's discussion is proof positive.
Got it. So only memes that directly mention a political party or political party position is political.
Since there are many communist parties across the globe, that means that any post referencing capitalism is political since making any statement on capitalism is political since it's related directly to the party stance of political parties around the world, both pro and against.
So the Microsoft Nike crossover meme is political by your definition. Glad we agree!
What does being political mean to you?
In this context, it's matters related to government, politicians, or the general culture of a country, in which there are two or more major camps of conflicting opinions, where a good deal of people in one or more of those camps view the other camp as evil because of their view.
If the post is in a community where only one of the camps is significantly present, but the post is attacking the other camp, it is still political.
Why do you ask? Are you hoping to expose some inconsistency in my definition? Maybe use it to call something I like political with the expectation that I'll disagree with you? Or were you expecting my definition to be biased, calling something political that shouldn't be, so that you could expose me as a moustache-twirling villain?
So we can't post memes about ..... checks notes the general culture of our country?
So no memes about anything with literally any specifics.
You realize if you got your wish memses would just be "how many of yall like breathing"
Maybe you could point us to an example of an acceptable meme with no politics involved.
Earlier in this thread, I said:
I also clarified that it has to be contentious, in a way where people condemn each other for thinking differently.
Here are some non-political memes posted in this community in the past hour:
https://lemmy.ml/post/5184036
https://lemmy.ml/post/5185652
https://lemmy.ml/post/5185650
https://lemmy.ml/post/5186256
https://lemmy.ml/post/5186204
That's 5 of the 6 memes posted in that timespan.
1 and 3 are pretty directly political lol
Here let me give you the codex.
When this person says "political" they mean "things I dont agree with"
I don't think "I don't like my job" is politically divisive. You don't really get people up in arms about it unless you're complaining about capitalism or work in general. Even boomers have their "I'd rather be fishing" meme about it.
This is absolutely a political statement. Your work and conditions are political and can be changed only through seizing control and unionization, both political actions.
Tl:DR work under capitalism fucking sucks because it's exploiting us and not fighting for your liberation is politically divisive
Well by that logic, merely saying "I have a job" is a political statement.
Also I'm not reading all that, thank you.
Because claiming to be "nonpolitical" continues to mean wishing to be willfully ignorant and comfortably within the realm of political norms you're so used to that you just don't notice them.
Ask yourself a simple question. What happens to someone that doesn't have a job in our society?
spoiler
Exactly you dweeb
smh these lemm.ee tankies aren't participating in good faitherinos
Yes
You'd be so close if your attention span was longer than a goldfish.
Also you can't talk shit about sonething and then admit you didn't read it.
Also also were not libs so nobody is impressed by you refusing to interact with things that don't already confirm your beliefs.
My notifications are full of Hexbear.
People have a lot to say about my position on something. Should i examine some of my underlying assumptions and unexamined opinions regarding this issue?
No, its the hexbears who are wrong
There comes a point where I can't juggle conversations with 20 different people on the same topic and I have to step back instead of trying.
I've had this exact conversation with an irl friend about how life is political, and you don't get to pretend that your worldview is somehow so above it all and apolitical so that you can tell other people to stop posting memes in the meme channel.
Yeah so shut the fuck up
I know how you feel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's alright. I appreciate you guys in a way. Honestly I don't want my feed to be on an echo chamber, that's not good for anyone.
I just don't think this is the right community to do it.
"I don't like my job" is so political people bled and died to the american government for your right to not have to do it 80 hours a week as a 12 year old.
First one is about technology and alienation under a capitalist mode of production, discussing work and leisure. That's political.
Third one is about dating and advertisements online, which is related to sexual politics and commodification of sex work online. Political.
You're pretty upset that I asked a question aren't you? I wonder why that is.
Government and politicians I think are pretty self explanatory and I would agree those are inherently political, no argument there.
What do you think is part of a general culture of a country, or not? How would you define culture that has conflicting opinions? Is it solely up to your discretion, or would you agree that if anyone has any disagreement about a meme that would make it automatically political?
Is this one political because it references the FBI, a governmental organization? https://startrek.website/post/1847371 I would argue that it is political.
Is this one political because it references culture related to advertising in capitalism? I would think everyone should agree that any reference to or commentary of an economic system is inherently political because of course economic systems are controversial. I don't see how anyone could argue that references to a combination of two major brands isn't a commentary on marketing: https://programming.dev/post/3200916
I mean this one references politics so it's clearly political right? https://lemm.ee/post/8502748
I'm just curious about what you and others think is political versus not. You can't have a discussion about if something should or should not be allowed if you can't clearly define the boundaries of that thing. I find the discussion around what is and isn't politics to be an interesting one, that's all.
Not upset, just suspicious because I've seen you asking that question a lot.
Obviously what I consider political is up to my discretion, but I'm pretty sure the general definition does not include contentious memes, and mine doesn't either because I gave a clause about one side considering the other side evil because of it.
In general, if a person asks themselves "is what I'm posting political?" they can answer correctly 95% of the time, and the 5% of edge cases won't upset 95% of the complainers.
That's an awful lot of words to implicitly say "it's not political if I agree with it"
"If a person asks themselves is this political they can answer correctly 95% of the time."
Yea turns out it's easier to answer a question correctly if you're deciding I'd the answer is right or not.
Where are you getting that?
Where you said your test is asking yourself if you thought it was political and saying you were right 95% of the time.
What I meant was that anyone can ask themselves if it's political, and 95% of the time they'll get it right by the standards of 95% of the people who don't like politics.
Ohh so it's at the discretion of people who "don't like politics" if it's political or not.
Dont worry I've seen those "non political" people talk a lot so I know what you mean.
Like how there's two races. White and "political"
So as long as what you post doesn't offend straight white people it isn't political, but if it does then it is.
What a refreshing and original take.
You're kinda misconstruing what I'm saying a lot.
Everyone has their own threshold for what's political. Some people say everything is political. Some people say it's only political if it relates to conflict between politicians.
I'm saying in 95% of cases, 95% of people can agree on what is and isn't political.
When people complain about political memes, they're usually complaining about blatantly political posts, like ones making fun of the republican party, not memes that happen to feature Black people.
This is clearly not what you just said before
Unless you are suggesting that something like ~96.95% of the population "doesn't like politics
I think can answer the memes questions for you.
Lmao. The FBI: famously non-political government organization that murders activists as easily as one can breath air.
And Microsoft: famously non-political company that
bribeslobbies the u.s government constantly to gain monopoly over their market, works hand-in-hand with federal agencies to monitor system users, and regularly influences city, state, and national politics in the pursuit of subsidies of the American worker in order to further boost their already gross profit margins.I'm not disagreeing that some companies can have a political impact on the world.
Those memes in particular, aren't focused on the political aspects. You have to be missing a brain in order to miss the point there.
No you have to be missing a brain to think monopolies don't have anything to do with politics.
Stealing a line from something I saw earlier. If you don't like the memes just ignore them like you do the homeless people you walk by, non-politically.
I never said they don't have anything to do with politics you dumbfuck. Re-read my post.
Ok I re read the part where you said
And interpreted that to mean you didn't think it was political.
If that wasn't the intent you should work on communicating more clearly, or not being mad when people correctly read what you posted.
Oh god. How thick can you be? I meant the MEME isn't political. Never said anything about Microsoft or other big companies.
You did not read correctly, indeed. The question was if the meme was political, not Microsoft.
Oh god. How thick can you be? You did not read correctly, indeed. The question was if the meme was political. And it clearly is, since it references political entities and distributes the ideology of whoever is OP of the meme to a bunch of unsuspecting lurkers that falsely assume it's non-political. Also the fact that you disagree about what is and what isn't political makes it political
You guys are making it political.
Remove the hexbear instance and you'll see that most of the comments agree on what is and isn't politics, even thought their feelings towards X and Y political party differ. It's seems it's just you guys creating a shit storm of nonsense and everybody else kinda getting along despite their differences.
There is a massive degree of consensus between Democrats and Republicans with vicious disagreement on a minority of issues
I wouldn't know, I'm not from the US ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But for what little I know of US politics, I believe you are correct.
You're describing an echochamber..
Nah, I'm describing a meme focused community.
If there are no politics, there are no echo chambers to be had.
That must explain why all those meme focused communities, especially the "dank" and "edgy" ones radicalized a generation of white boys to worship Andrew tate and why we've got 10 year olds saying kill all gays and fuck women to popular "meme" streamers.
Cus of how non political those places are.
I agree with you there. I hate that little old scrutum too.
But, if those memes would start to get too edgy, yes I would still want a specific community for them
Wow what a surprise the person complaining about memes being too political also thinks that the memes that radicalized fascists should still be kept around.
You're literally the white moderate holding back progress MLK Jr described.
What drugs are you high on?
I didn't say those memes should be kept around. I said they should have their own community in the sense that I don't want them here.
Truth be told, we would have no way to ban those people from creating a community or even an entire instance if they wanted to.
Also, I'm not from the US. No fucking clue what you mean by white moderate. Also, why specifically white? Wtf
Of course you think that there are no politics, because you have a very limited understanding of politics
I'm not gonna argue with you anymore. You do you.
You can't have one without the other and you'd have to have a brain smoother than melting butter in order to miss the point there
There's no point arguing with you since you can't understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is nor can you read what I previously wrote.
You think the basic concept of a meme is an increasingly stale chuckle you get while being in an ever-smaller bubble world because the world outside of that is scary and uncomfortable to you.
What? This is a community for memes. Political debate isn't memes. Simple as that.
Keep your head in the sand as deep and long as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that almost everything imaginable has some intersectional political context, including whining about things being too political.
You may not notice it when you're comfortable and used to it, but it's there.
The only thing simple about it is your willful ignorance and the ever-smaller bubble world you're trying to hold together because the world outside of it is scary and political.
I get what you mean, even thought I don't entirely agree.
If you go to extremes, everything can be political. That's not the reality more often than not. Also, I don't mind politics, and I enjoy different opinions. However, I don't think memes where the point is clearly to annoy or trigger any political party or political movement belong here though.
In sum, I respect and appreciate any and all political opinions, on political centric communities. I just want to look at stupid memes and unwind, I don't want to see the the usual left/right/capitalist/socialist/communist arguments.
Who decides what is "extreme?" You?
That's the problem. It's a vague arbitrary line that seems defined by "what you find uncomfortable that you don't want to think about."
Extremes are based on common sense. If you don't have common sense then I'm afraid I can't help you understand what is political and what isn't.
I'm done wasting my time with this crap.
Again, what you call your common sense as an arbitrary and selfish metric that others clearly do not agree with, including here in this thread.
That's an impressive amount of textual masturbation there.
Alas, you must go, the nonpolitical logical humans of Rationalia require your presence. Be on your way, oh nonpolitical arbiter of what is and isn't common sense.
FUCKIN LMAO and who defines what common sense is? Is there a list of criteria for something to be considered common sense that is generally accepted? I must have missed that checklist.
Guess I'm a dumbfuck.
There's no point arguing with you since you're detached from material reality, nor can you read what I previously wrote.
When you get to the size of a monopoly like that, you operate on such a massive scale that your very existence as a company, and the actions required to grow and sustain it, is orders of magnitude more politcal than say, the small-scale relationship between a restaurant owner and their employees, which is also inherently politcal.
Again, I'm not saying you guys are wrong. What I'm saying is that the point of the meme is NOT political in nature.
But I think they're political. Is my opinion on what is and is not political invalid for some objective reason?
You're entitled to your opinion. It doesn't make it less wrong though, the content of the memes is clearly not political.
Can you provide an objective reason why my thoughts on this are wrong?
Acknowledging the fact that politics exist is not inherently political. Please explain how that third meme is even remotely political?
Regardless, the lack of a clear and simple political-or-not binary is not an excuse to avoid moderation. The political nature of some things will be argued and some things will slip through the cracks. It happens with all spectrums. But on the other hand, some things are so clearly political that it's nigh impossible to argue they're not. I'm sure you can see the massive difference in a meme about Microsoft shoes and a meme about Trump or Biden bad. Those clear extremely political memes are the ones people want banned to their own communities.
And to be clear, I actually like political memes. I just find your rebuttal to be in bad taste.
So basically you want to go with "whatever the mods think in their gut is political, is political" and expect that you'll have a well moderated community with that as your rule?
I mean, you do you, but that doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.
If you have to ask why the 3rd meme is political I encourage you to go read the thread beneath it. Look at how much discussion and conflict it caused. It's clearly political and basically that entire thread's discussion is proof positive.
They are wrong because those memes aren't politic. They are not mentioning any party or political affiliation in any way.
Do companies influence politics? Absolutely. But that's not the point of the meme.
Got it. So only memes that directly mention a political party or political party position is political.
Since there are many communist parties across the globe, that means that any post referencing capitalism is political since making any statement on capitalism is political since it's related directly to the party stance of political parties around the world, both pro and against.
So the Microsoft Nike crossover meme is political by your definition. Glad we agree!
You almost got it buddy. Keep trying though, you're very close!
"You're almost in the direction of my feelings about what is political and what isn't based upon how I feel about it!"
youre gonna have to get more specific there. what part of American "culture" grinds your gears and you want to see less of?
skibidi toilet memes are american culture and thus political
i don't make the rules