You're questioning people's motives. Why can't there be sincere disagreement about strategy? You can calmly explain why you disagree without attacking everyone.
I’m sick of you fucking libs giving up any power we have
I think you're the one asking us to give up power. Jimmy's call looked quixotic at first, but there's genuine support for this among the left, including from relatively mainstream figures.
We know who they are
We mostly do - the public doesn't. Also, it's still useful to see who'll be willing to stand in the way when push comes to shove.
The Democrats have a 10 vote margin in the House and there are 18 Blue Dog Democrats, not even counting the New Democratic Caucus. It takes 11 Blue Dogs to kill the bill. All it’s going to o do is give cover to Nancy Pelosi and other reps masquerading as “progressives” to say “No, I’m progressive, see, I voted for the bill” in 2022.
Say they do that. Fine, primary challenges will have to be based on different issues. But that'll put them on the record - it'll shift the Overton Window: "90% of House Democrats support M4A, only a few conservative assholes don't". They'll have a tougher time raising money from anti-M4A donors. They'll be forced to pick a fight with Biden and the Republicans - Pelosi will have to tell MSNBC that Medicare For All is good and the talking points against it are Republican nonsense.
Like I said - if you're sharpening bamboo sticks or organizing workers - good for you, all the power to you. But then leave discussions of electoral strategies to people who give a shit about them. Because you're making the lib arguments in favor of Pelosi.
You’re questioning people’s motives. Why can’t there be sincere disagreement about strategy?
You are out here unironically stanning fucking Jimmy Dore, who is saying anyone who doesn't support this garbage idea of trading any leverage the left may have for a useless symbolic vote is garbage and captured and should be thrown out. Shut the fuck up.
We mostly do - the public doesn’t.
Oh really, the public doesn't know the conservative Democrats are against M4A?
Also, it’s still useful to see who’ll be willing to stand in the way when push comes to shove.
You already admitted this is going to fail, meaning it's not "when push comes to shove".
it’ll shift the Overton Window:
:LIB:
They’ll have a tougher time raising money from anti-M4A donors.
No, they won't. They will just go back to their donors and say "I had to vote for it to protect against a primary from the right, but that bill was never going to pass." Do you honestly think the capitalist class doesn't understand this shit?
They’ll be forced to pick a fight with Biden and the Republicans - Pelosi will have to tell MSNBC that Medicare For All is good and the talking points against it are Republican nonsense.
We already did this exact fucking scenario in 2009! "Oh, we tried to the Public Option, but that fucking bastard Joe Lieberman blocked it. Oh well, we'll get em next time!" How do you people keep falling for the fucking okey doke?
But then leave discussions of electoral strategies to people who give a shit about them
No, because you are a moron and you represent the left.
Because you’re making the lib arguments in favor of Pelosi
Once again proving that you are lib operating in bad faith looking to divide the left. I have said multiple times now that the baseline is to not vote for Pelosi unless there is an actual deal with power to be had for the left behind it, and that an M4A floor vote gives the left nothing in the way of power.
Really, we all know he is bad? Because the OP of this thread says Jimmy Dore is good, and the user I was responding to has responded to me in several other threads over the past week about #ForceTheVote defending how Jimmy Dore is actually good.
yes we do lol, force the vote is good and its not synonymous with dore and pretending it is is dumb lol, dore is right to demand more of the "left democrats" that doesnt mean you can say people are "stanning him" for starting the conversation
You're questioning people's motives. Why can't there be sincere disagreement about strategy? You can calmly explain why you disagree without attacking everyone.
I think you're the one asking us to give up power. Jimmy's call looked quixotic at first, but there's genuine support for this among the left, including from relatively mainstream figures.
We mostly do - the public doesn't. Also, it's still useful to see who'll be willing to stand in the way when push comes to shove.
Say they do that. Fine, primary challenges will have to be based on different issues. But that'll put them on the record - it'll shift the Overton Window: "90% of House Democrats support M4A, only a few conservative assholes don't". They'll have a tougher time raising money from anti-M4A donors. They'll be forced to pick a fight with Biden and the Republicans - Pelosi will have to tell MSNBC that Medicare For All is good and the talking points against it are Republican nonsense.
Like I said - if you're sharpening bamboo sticks or organizing workers - good for you, all the power to you. But then leave discussions of electoral strategies to people who give a shit about them. Because you're making the lib arguments in favor of Pelosi.
You are out here unironically stanning fucking Jimmy Dore, who is saying anyone who doesn't support this garbage idea of trading any leverage the left may have for a useless symbolic vote is garbage and captured and should be thrown out. Shut the fuck up.
Oh really, the public doesn't know the conservative Democrats are against M4A?
You already admitted this is going to fail, meaning it's not "when push comes to shove".
:LIB:
No, they won't. They will just go back to their donors and say "I had to vote for it to protect against a primary from the right, but that bill was never going to pass." Do you honestly think the capitalist class doesn't understand this shit?
We already did this exact fucking scenario in 2009! "Oh, we tried to the Public Option, but that fucking bastard Joe Lieberman blocked it. Oh well, we'll get em next time!" How do you people keep falling for the fucking okey doke?
No, because you are a moron and you represent the left.
Once again proving that you are lib operating in bad faith looking to divide the left. I have said multiple times now that the baseline is to not vote for Pelosi unless there is an actual deal with power to be had for the left behind it, and that an M4A floor vote gives the left nothing in the way of power.
lol what? this is just bullshit lol
Wrong.
nobody is stanning dore this is bad faith
Wrong.
no its right, and you should be able to make an argument beyond dore bad which is what we all know
Really, we all know he is bad? Because the OP of this thread says Jimmy Dore is good, and the user I was responding to has responded to me in several other threads over the past week about #ForceTheVote defending how Jimmy Dore is actually good.
yes we do lol, force the vote is good and its not synonymous with dore and pretending it is is dumb lol, dore is right to demand more of the "left democrats" that doesnt mean you can say people are "stanning him" for starting the conversation
https://hexbear.net/post/61089/comment/610779
im owned im owned