I've always heard "men and women" or "male and female"; it makes sense to use these terms rather than "men and females" or "males and women" which just sounds weird.
And I'm a bit confused. I get the female and women argument, which implies that male and men are defaults. But your argument is different - female is associated with sex and not gender, thus being not-inclusive, but that would equally apply to men and male? Should we just stop using both, male and female, except when talking explicitly about sex?
"Female" is used to describe the sex of animals in addition to humans, whereas "woman" refers to a female human. So "female" is quite literally dehumanizing. This is my take on it anyway.
Should we stop using both, male and female, except when talking explicitly about sex?
I say yes. Outside of medical studies, there’s really no reason to refer to people as males and females. I didn’t talk about it for men/males because I don’t think I’ve ever seen people refer to men as “males” the way I see it on a regular basis for women.
When it comes to male/female as an adjective, we don’t really have a replacement yet although some people have started saying stuff like woman president or woman pilot. Like I would still say female doctor if I was referring to a trans woman who was a doctor, but I guess ideally we’d have a better word.
I've always heard "men and women" or "male and female"; it makes sense to use these terms rather than "men and females" or "males and women" which just sounds weird.
And I'm a bit confused. I get the female and women argument, which implies that male and men are defaults. But your argument is different - female is associated with sex and not gender, thus being not-inclusive, but that would equally apply to men and male? Should we just stop using both, male and female, except when talking explicitly about sex?
"Female" is used to describe the sex of animals in addition to humans, whereas "woman" refers to a female human. So "female" is quite literally dehumanizing. This is my take on it anyway.
There is an acceptable double standard when it comes to this topic but fwiw I also find male a little weird and clinical
I say yes. Outside of medical studies, there’s really no reason to refer to people as males and females. I didn’t talk about it for men/males because I don’t think I’ve ever seen people refer to men as “males” the way I see it on a regular basis for women.
When it comes to male/female as an adjective, we don’t really have a replacement yet although some people have started saying stuff like woman president or woman pilot. Like I would still say female doctor if I was referring to a trans woman who was a doctor, but I guess ideally we’d have a better word.