here’s the issue that you don’t understand, what direction the broad left in this country takes is not based on my personal opinion. It’s dictated by people that these relatively new leftists decide to follow based on the options presented to them by people they respect. There was genuine leftist energy behind AOC, people were excited, people got their hopes invested into her. They’re not going to come to the conclusion on their own that she fucking sucks, nobody makes their opinions in a bubble and you shouldn’t have anyone on the left giving them a fucking pass. The thing that we can control, whether she gets any support from orgs/the online left as it currently exists should be argued about. The universal response for how poorly these social democrats have done is “fuck you and anyone that talks and walks like you.”

Like I said this whole useless shitshow has resulted in me being more inclined to support her. She has plenty of actual faults that you could be criticizing her on, but instead it's stupid bullshit like this. And like that post the other day that was criticizing her for fucking, appearing on magazine covers. This is what happens when you shift the criticism away from things like foreign policy and onto stupid bullshit like this.

Yes, that’s the only use of bourgeoisie politics in the first place. Especially in the imperial core, you’re never going to “vote” out capitalism, and there is genuine use and radicalization that can happen when you show that, even when the good guys are in power, more has to be done.

Wow, it's almost as if AOC hasn't read Lenin at all! I thought for sure that she'd use her position to demonstrate how useless bourgeoisie politics are, because she communicated to me through psychic brainwaves that she's actually an ML.

Oh wait, no, she didn't. She has never said or done anything to give that impression, so expecting her to behave as though she were an ML is really bizarre. She is not trying to get people to lose faith in the system, she is not trying to start a revolution, she's trying to work within the system to do what little she can to make things less bad. If you're coming at it from an ML perspective then she has already failed on a fundamental level by taking that strategy, and you should've dismissed her long before any of this. Expecting AOC to act as if she were leading a vanguard party is just insane.

I just love how so many people have this take of "The only way to show how useless the succ-dems are is if we can get them to do this." If you need them to do something in order to accomplish your goals, then you've just made a great argument that they are not actually useless.

Hell, we wouldn’t be talking on this website right now if these elections (like the 2016/2020 Bernie campaign) didn’t cause an explosion in numbers. I would not have proper criticisms of Bernie if it wasn’t for Bernie. Using these elections to heightening the contradictions is useful and important as we’ve seen from previous socialist revolutions

Yeah, only in that case success was actually plausible, or at least believable. You don't accomplish anything with a movement that everyone knows is doomed to fail from the start.

Also, there absolutely can be a strategy from that “here are the people we need to focus on, it is our goal to primary the fuck out of these people”,

Except for the part where there were already enough Dems explicitly opposed to M4A to tank it. Or the part where they could've let it go past the House, because obviously it would fail in the senate. It would have given us precisely zero new information so this argument is nonsense.

The whole thing was dumb and it doesn't even matter anymore and there is nothing you could say to convince me otherwise. There's like 5 different layers of why it was a bad idea and every argument for it has been total bullshit.

But then, clinging to a failed attempt to get someone to do something that might fail to get something that would definitely fail, which accomplished nothing but infighting, seems like a pretty leftist thing to do so keep at it, champ.