If the Russian ideology and the American ideology are the same, and Ukraine's getting one of them either way, how can you feel like there's a side that's worthy of support?
It's already happened. Ukraine's military is decimated, they've lost 90% of their men and can't mount any further attacks. They were built up from 2014-2022 to be the largest military in Europe, they were destroyed, they were re-built with massive donations from NATO and now they have been destroyed again. NATO has no more juice to squeeze. Russia has destroyed a massive portion of NATO's munitions and have broken apart the largest military in Europe twice. Nobody else could have done this.
De-dollarization and multipolarity has already made massive strides in just the last few years, as the rest of the world moves away from the west after seeing it's actions in this conflict. America bought a few more years for itself by cannibalizing and destroying the industrial base of Europe and especially Germany, but in the long run their western bloc is breaking down and weakening. This is unlike Iraq, with those we didn't see massive moves towards de-dollarization and multipolarity. And unlike the cold war, there seems to be only 2 camps instead of 3 - the golden billion and the other 6 outside the garden walls. The westoids and restofus
Were there massive moves away from the USD due to the collapse of the South Vietnamese Army? Was the industrial base of Europe de-industrialized when America lost in Vietnam? No, unfortunately not. Things are moving now.
I'd say moves away from the USD have more to do with the economic moves that China is making rather than the war in Ukraine. India's new right-wing nationalist government moving away from a non-Trump US was kind of a given, too.
This stuff all seems like it could have been happening without thousands of people dying at war.
So this all started rapidly moving in February 2022 coincidentally? Right after Russia's reserves were seized and massive sanctions were imposed on the biggest resource and energy exporters on earth? India and China were backing up Russia and gave them assurances they would not sanction. This started the shift as massive amounts of cheap energy flowed into China/India while the EU began to disintegrate economically without cheap energy. This changes the global calculus, it moves everyone away from the US except for the EU. Saudi Arabia and OPEC nations were alienated by sanction attempts by the EU to control gas prices, and also by Russian reserves being illegally seized. This started the shift in the middle east away from Israel and towards Iran, as Saudi Arabia turned neutral and spurned Israel/The US.
Now we have an Iran-China-Russia bloc, with India and Saudi Arabia and Brazil following quietly behind, torn between them and the west. It will no longer be a US dominated world in a few short decades at this rate. Their web of global policing unraveled and contained.
Yes, unfortunately they did because the Ukrainians broke the Minsk ceasefire 22,000 times in the days leading up to the SMO. 14,000 Ukrainians dead in Donbas before the invasion already. I'm sorry, but this is all incredibly naive. The second the Americans installed a Nazi junta into power in 2014 the war was required and inevitable.
Russia tried for 8 years to stall and negotiate and get Ukraine to fucking chill and stop the ethnic cleansing but they never did, they kept increasing aggression. They kept breaking ceasefires. The west admits now those ceasefires were purposeful lies to buy time to get more weapons to more nazis. They never had any intention of making peace, it was a project of proxy damage against Russia.
Just so happens that your characterization of events is identical to Russia's.
I wouldn't trust the narrative provided by a capitalist state if they told me it was raining in the middle of a hurricane but I'm just built different I guess.
Just so happens that your characterization of events is identical to Russia's.
A hexbear calling another hexbear a Putin Shill. Never thought I'd see the day. Unfortunately for you,@ProxyTheAwesome@hexbear.net's characterization happens to line up with what has been demonstrated to be actually true. Once again, it turns out that reality has a material bias.
I wouldn't trust the narrative provided by a capitalist state if they told me it was raining in the middle of a hurricane but I'm just built different I guess.
That's exactly what you're doing, though. You're trusting the narrative provided by the world hegemon, the very worst of capitalist states. And you're regurgitating that narrative for them. It's pretty gross.
Yours just so happens to be a lazy one that leftists in the west seem to consistently arrive at after doing zero investigation or research. So we're at an impasse.
If the Russian ideology and the American ideology are the same, and Ukraine's getting one of them either way, how can you feel like there's a side that's worthy of support?
This is an extremely weird way of seeing geopolitics, as "ideology" spreading. It's very neo-con and American.
It's about destroying the NATO army of the world empire. It's that simple
Yeah it doesn't really seem like that's happening or has any chance of happening from this conflict.
The US has been losing wars since the 50s, and they're not even getting any American teenagers killed in this one.
It's already happened. Ukraine's military is decimated, they've lost 90% of their men and can't mount any further attacks. They were built up from 2014-2022 to be the largest military in Europe, they were destroyed, they were re-built with massive donations from NATO and now they have been destroyed again. NATO has no more juice to squeeze. Russia has destroyed a massive portion of NATO's munitions and have broken apart the largest military in Europe twice. Nobody else could have done this.
De-dollarization and multipolarity has already made massive strides in just the last few years, as the rest of the world moves away from the west after seeing it's actions in this conflict. America bought a few more years for itself by cannibalizing and destroying the industrial base of Europe and especially Germany, but in the long run their western bloc is breaking down and weakening. This is unlike Iraq, with those we didn't see massive moves towards de-dollarization and multipolarity. And unlike the cold war, there seems to be only 2 camps instead of 3 - the golden billion and the other 6 outside the garden walls. The westoids and restofus
I mean China could have done it easily. But this is like saying the US is done for because the South Vietnamese army crumbled.
Were there massive moves away from the USD due to the collapse of the South Vietnamese Army? Was the industrial base of Europe de-industrialized when America lost in Vietnam? No, unfortunately not. Things are moving now.
I'd say moves away from the USD have more to do with the economic moves that China is making rather than the war in Ukraine. India's new right-wing nationalist government moving away from a non-Trump US was kind of a given, too.
This stuff all seems like it could have been happening without thousands of people dying at war.
So this all started rapidly moving in February 2022 coincidentally? Right after Russia's reserves were seized and massive sanctions were imposed on the biggest resource and energy exporters on earth? India and China were backing up Russia and gave them assurances they would not sanction. This started the shift as massive amounts of cheap energy flowed into China/India while the EU began to disintegrate economically without cheap energy. This changes the global calculus, it moves everyone away from the US except for the EU. Saudi Arabia and OPEC nations were alienated by sanction attempts by the EU to control gas prices, and also by Russian reserves being illegally seized. This started the shift in the middle east away from Israel and towards Iran, as Saudi Arabia turned neutral and spurned Israel/The US.
Now we have an Iran-China-Russia bloc, with India and Saudi Arabia and Brazil following quietly behind, torn between them and the west. It will no longer be a US dominated world in a few short decades at this rate. Their web of global policing unraveled and contained.
And not a single Ukrainian or Russian had to be blown up for that to happen.
Russia's recognition of Luhansk and Donetsk would have likely triggered sanctions and/or firming up of alignments without a single shot being fired.
Yes, unfortunately they did because the Ukrainians broke the Minsk ceasefire 22,000 times in the days leading up to the SMO. 14,000 Ukrainians dead in Donbas before the invasion already. I'm sorry, but this is all incredibly naive. The second the Americans installed a Nazi junta into power in 2014 the war was required and inevitable.
Russia tried for 8 years to stall and negotiate and get Ukraine to fucking chill and stop the ethnic cleansing but they never did, they kept increasing aggression. They kept breaking ceasefires. The west admits now those ceasefires were purposeful lies to buy time to get more weapons to more nazis. They never had any intention of making peace, it was a project of proxy damage against Russia.
I disagree with most of your characterization of events.
Natoids tend to
Just so happens that your characterization of events is identical to Russia's.
I wouldn't trust the narrative provided by a capitalist state if they told me it was raining in the middle of a hurricane but I'm just built different I guess.
A hexbear calling another hexbear a Putin Shill. Never thought I'd see the day. Unfortunately for you,@ProxyTheAwesome@hexbear.net's characterization happens to line up with what has been demonstrated to be actually true. Once again, it turns out that reality has a material bias.
That's exactly what you're doing, though. You're trusting the narrative provided by the world hegemon, the very worst of capitalist states. And you're regurgitating that narrative for them. It's pretty gross.
Declaring that Ukraine unilaterally violated Minsk II is not a defensible position.
Yes it is
k
@ThomasMuentzner@hexbear.net
Drop the Minsk violation maps for this lib please
Yours just so happens to be a lazy one that leftists in the west seem to consistently arrive at after doing zero investigation or research. So we're at an impasse.