Not trying to dox myself so I'm not gonna say where exactly I work but yeah it's at a grocery store. Wondering about quality of meat at places and stuff? I'm your guy.

    • emizeko [they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      cool so I can stop buying pork and absolutely nothing happens except someone else buys pork marginally cheaper

      DotP or fucking bust

      • emizeko [they/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-trouble-with-ethical-consumption/

        • emizeko [they/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          In a speciesist world, a practicing ethical vegan highlights and disrupts normalised violence every time they refuse to eat animal products, or refuse to sit at a table where animal products are being consumed.

          oh, so it's boycotting plus never getting invited to dinner again.

          Veganism is a deep and multi-faceted form of resistance, and it is only one aspect of the wider animal liberation movement, which engages many different forms of activism including direct action, consciousness raising and strategic litigation.

          raising awareness and lawsuits. this is liberalism; adding a single throwaway reference to "direct action" doesn't help when there is no theory of change behind it.

                • emizeko [they/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  let's compare this to climate change: do you think more people need to be "aware" that burning fossil fuels is fucked, or do you think someone has to make them stop?

                  everyone knows fossil fuels are bad, even the people profiting off them

                    • emizeko [they/them]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      how do you expect to be able to make people stop burning fossil fuels if we don’t even know there’s a problem

                      how do you expect to be able to make people stop burning fossil fuels when the vast majority already know there's a problem? individual consumer choices and shaming? or seizing the means of production?

                                • emizeko [they/them]
                                  ·
                                  4 years ago

                                  as if "building solidarity" with a cow is meaningful in any actual sense. what have you built? what does that do besides make you feel morally superior? are you going to go out in a field and get its opinion on the mass line?

                                    • emizeko [they/them]
                                      ·
                                      4 years ago

                                      your point is we should recruit cows into the socialist party

                                        • emizeko [they/them]
                                          ·
                                          4 years ago

                                          Are you helping to seize the means

                                          we were talking about seizing the means, and you brought up building solidarity with a cow to do that

                                                • emizeko [they/them]
                                                  ·
                                                  4 years ago

                                                  a dictatorship of the proletariat is a prerequisite to achieving real change, I will continue criticizing moral scolds whose theory of change is guilt-tripping and consumer choices instead of building a vanguard party

                                                    • emizeko [they/them]
                                                      ·
                                                      4 years ago

                                                      the fundamental error you are making is thinking that ethical concerns will ever dominate material and cultural factors (which "ethics" are a subset of). the base (material conditions) and superstructure are the real forces reinforcing meat consumption.

                                                      the only advantage the working class has is numbers, yet your priority is to immediately subdivide them into "good" and "bad" categories— instead of using those numbers to seize the power that could then reduce those material and cultural factors that reinforce meat consumption. that's why I keep mentioning a dictatorship of the proletariat, the only way to actually achieve communism against the forces of capital reaction. less sorting the working class on moral grounds, more historical materialism.

            • emizeko [they/them]
              ·
              4 years ago

              This is like saying reading/watching theory is liberalism.

              theory connects conditions to your material class interests. "raising awareness" is a moral appeal (idealism)

                • emizeko [they/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Non-human animals have material interests.

                  theory connects conditions to your material class SELF-interest.

                  "raising awareness" is a moral appeal to a person on behalf of a third-party

                  it's my belief that in a DotP once there is enough class consciousness to come into a species-being, we will be able to extend that to all animals. I would hope that one of the first things a DotP would do is get rid of food deserts to make sure good produce and non-animal options were easily available to everyone.

                  think of it in terms of base and superstructure; even if you make a bold stroke to eliminate all the stuff in the base that pushes meat, the elements of the superstructure that recreate that will still be there, creating (albeit smaller) cultural ripples that will recreate (lesser) material inequalities that then have to be addressed again. it's like reducing the amplitude on a big pendulum as you approach a classless society

    • VivaZapata [he/him]B
      ·
      4 years ago

      Sounds like a good idea. I'd rather there not be a meat industry and for us all to have cloned meat or something.