Cow eating chicken
youtu.be

The video is to prove a point really fast, but, cows actually do only eat proteins. They have three stomachs that they use to feed grass to bacterial colonies, which they then pull into their fourth stomach to eat, with any of the grass that's left un-eaten by the bacteria being shit straight out without being processed any further. They don't eat the grass, the grass is there to feed what they do eat, which is supplemented by eating any large animal small enough to fit in their mouth. I read a study once that almost all cows when dissected had at least 1 animal in their digestive system at a time.

The notion that cows are good peaceful harmless herbivores who eat nothing but grass is nonsense. Here's a video of a cow eating the corpse of a donkey. Of note: there's grass right next to the body. And it isn't just a result of cows being fucked up by human domestication, wild deer (who you cannot blame on humans malnourishing it or contaminating its feed or whatever) do it too.

constructing an elaborate worldview out of a kindergarten level understanding of biology and then getting extremely smug about it annoys me relentlessly. Cows would eat you if they had the chance

  • KrasMazovThought [comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    We can’t humanize non-human animals, nor apply human-human morality to animal ethical concerns, and this is largely but not totally due to the fact that animals aren’t subject to human cultural, jurisprudential, or legal ethics.

    Okay, but as we know, not eating an animal is *not * the same as humanizing them or applying human-human morality.

    I agree it’s possible to treat animals ethically with regard to human-animal morality, and it remains true that applying a “human framework” isn’t relevant in this instance.

    So if (just as a possibility) it was ethical to refrain from eating animals, this would not require animals themselves to refrain from eating animals. This is in opposition to the assertion “you can’t humanize/personify non-human animals using this ethical framework and then neglect applying that framework to animals themselves."

    • volkvulture [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Consciously choosing to not eat animals isn't the same as humanizing them, I agree. I also think it's a perfectly valid personal decision based on personal calculations

      Your hypothetical seems strangely generous to your own position. Can we also imagine (just as a possibility) that it is amoral or not always unethical for humans to eat animals?

      Either hypothetical is not in opposition to my assertion.

      • KrasMazovThought [comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Your hypothetical seems strangely generous to your own position. Can we also imagine (just as a possibility) that it is amoral or not always unethical for humans to eat animals?

        We could absolutely assume as a hypothetical the position it's in fact a moral good to eat animals.

        Okay, now we've considered it.

        Back to the question of whether it's true that “you can’t humanize/personify non-human animals using this ethical framework and then neglect applying that framework to animals themselves." It is not. If we take the hypothetical position for argument's sake that eating animals *was * ethically bad, it does not follow that we would then have to apply the framework eating animals is bad to animals themselves.

        • volkvulture [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          We are not taking your hypothetical position for argument's sake though, that's why we're discussing this

          • KrasMazovThought [comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            We are not taking your hypothetical position for argument’s sake though, that’s why we’re discussing this

            No, as I've said repeatedly I am not actually debating whether eating animal meat is good or not. I'm arguing that it does not follow that for animals to be an object of human ethical consideration animals themselves must follow this morality, in contradistinction to your statement “you can’t humanize/personify non-human animals using this ethical framework and then neglect applying that framework to animals themselves." The hypothetical only illustrates by substitution that the logical form remains valid and the assertion that the same framework must apply to animals is false.

            • volkvulture [none/use name]
              ·
              4 years ago

              We can't humanize/personify animals and then neglect to apply that framework & expectations of moral behavior from animals themselves. You've already said that you don't personify animals, and then you also said that you don't expect animals to behave under human moral limitations. So you've agreed with the statement in your responses

              Therefore, the statement still stands

              • KrasMazovThought [comrade/them]
                ·
                4 years ago

                We can’t humanize/personify animals

                We're not.

                and then neglect to apply that framework & expectations of moral behavior from animals themselves

                Not eating animals does not require any humanizing or personifying animals.

                • volkvulture [none/use name]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  I agree we aren't

                  Not eating animals does not require more than the valid personal decision to not eat animals

                  • KrasMazovThought [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    Not eating animals does not require more than the valid personal decision to not eat animals

                    Right, and also refraining from eating animals as an ethical decision does not require animals following along.