uncritical support for the DPRK in its heroic struggle to liberate occupied Korea from the genocidal American empire
Uncritical support to the ideology of Juche and its implementation
Lemme ask you this, does the US doing something bad nullify the wrongdoings of another country/regime?
When they're in the process or about to cause a humanitarian disaster in said country, yes.
Saddam's regime was terrible, however sanctions, plus destroying vital infrastructure such as water treatment facilities and power plants during war were infinitely worse. The sanctions on the DPRK that have been going on since 1950 compounded the nightmare of destroying all the infrastructure in the country and the killing of 20% of the population and are still ongoing.
Yankees really lived through Afghanistan and Iraq and learned about Vietnam and still think they are being given accurate narratives of state enemies now. I had hoped by now we might see even the most rudimentary skepticism of US media but alas.
the most rudimentary skepticism of US media
When I told the guy I knew that the US media has repeatedly lied for decades and offered tons of examples his response was "Maybe they're telling the truth now"
No one was held accountable and many of the people who lied then are still in power, but I'm sure we're good this time!
Not to mention Saddam was our guy for years and did exactly what we wanted him to.
Any supposed wrongdoing of the DPRK pales in comparison to what the USA did to the Korean people. Nine million Korean corpses lay at the feet of American imperialism, a number that continues to grow due to continued sanctions, spying, military exercises and aggression. The alleged wrongdoings of the DPRK's entire history do not even amount to the misery inflected by a single hour of American empire.
I'm not a coward who feels the need to avoid taking stances. I'm not a coward who finds moral equivalence in imperialism and defense against imperialism. The fact that the DPRK exists at all in such a context of overt hostility should be regarded as a supreme achievement. The DPRK manages to still stand, despite its hardships and this is a testament to the resilience of the Korean people and the power of socialism.
Seriously like. Even the absolute worst dubious, unproven accusations of what the DPRK's "Crimes" are pale in comparison to what the US and allies did to them. And thats just their crimes against Korea.
What wrongdoings? Who has North Korea ever invaded?
South Korea doesn't count, you can’t invade yourself
In the American Civil War the North didn't invade the South either and in both cases the North was clearly in the right
South Korea doesn’t count, you can’t invade yourself
North Korea and South Korea were separate entities following the surrender of Imperial Japan, with the North administered by the Soviets and the South administered by the US. North Korea 100% invaded South Korea, both with troops and supporting insurgency groups.
They were not though, neither the communists nor the Japanese collaborators believed the line was a legitimate or permanent division of the country. The plan was always reunification and no Korean party accepted the terms you're talking about.
Ironically there was an independent government emerging in the wake of the collapse of Japan but the US occupation outlawed it when they came in.
The People's Republic of Korea was basically the Korean government in exile during World War II. I think they merged into the DPRK after the US refused to let them take control of South Korea, even though they were the legitimate government of Korea.
I think that's a slight exaggeration, although I get what you're saying. But I think it's important to demonstrate to libs that I'm being consistent so I'll explain what I mean.
I don't think the communal decision making bodies that spun up in the wake of the Japanese evacuation were necessarily completely aligned with Kim or the communists in exile, it was virtually impossible to maintain a functioning domestic apparatus and what I've read makes it seem like these were mostly improvisational.
That said, I think in the long run you're right, I see it as similar to Vietnam later: because US foreign policy was aligned with elements that were naturally unpopular to the population of the country (in Korea's case, the Japanese and domestic collaborators) a democratic resolution of the question of what sort of government a united Korea would chose for itself was not going to be an acceptable outcome to the US.
But we don't know what they would organically choose for themselves because that decision was foreclosed by US occupation. I suspect a popular referendum was the best possible outcome but I think it would probably look very different from the current DPRK, for understandable reasons.
It is true that there are big differences in the ideology of the PRK and the DPRK, but the DPRK still was made as a sort of reconstitution of the PRK government
Foreign powers unilaterally divided the country in half, and the actual country itself just has to accept it?
My point was more this. In the American Civil War, the South was a breakaway region. In the Korean War, the North and South were separate countries with separate governments. The government of the North invaded the South. Period.
Before this gets brought up, the governments of both countries were authoritarian turds.
The US created south korea out of thin air at the end of WWII, literally just drawing a line on a map.
Then they both held elections. The south's election was rigged by the US, who used their sway at the UN (the USSR was boycotting at the time and PRC still hadn't been accepted) to get South Korea's puppet state recognized as the gov't of all Korea, including the parts that didn't even have the US's sham elections. As preparation to invade the north, the US purged any non-compliant elements from the gov't (going so far as to put compradors who'd worked for Japan during occupation in high ranking positions) and carried out massacres of elements likely to side with communists (such as rural villages that lead communal lifestyles).
The north saw America was coming for them and the longer they waited, the worse position they'd be in.
Well you're a dumbass if you can't understand this lol. What the fuck does the American Civil War have to do with this? Nobody forced the slavers to make a separate country. Meanwhile the US forced the south of Korea to set up a government and refuse any discussion with the rest of Korea. You can define invasion however you want but it's nonsense to define how you're trying other "governments tm" being how you define it
Doing something bad
yes the us is just doing an oopsie BEING THE PRIME SOURCE OF FASCISM, IMPERIALISM, AND CAPITALISM FOR THE LAST FUCKING CENTURY
How can you have lived through the War on Terror and trust anything the U.S. says about its designated enemies?
uncritical support for the DPRK in its heroic struggle to liberate occupied Korea from the genocidal American empire
if you think a WC in NK would be worse than in Saudi Arabia you’re up to your eyeballs in amerikkkan propaganda
Death to America
I don't know why you are talking about Saudi Arabia. Qatar is not Saudi Arabia.
Not really. I didn't know that Saudi Arabia will host one because I really don't care about fifa trash. But the meme is about Qatar and NC. So talking about Saudi Arabia is still kinda weird but no one is saying Saudi Arabia would be better than NC. The post just implies Qatar is better, while you totally could understand the meme to be about harming the WC branding and pushing the limits too far in general.
Saying you don't know why people are talking about Saudia Arabia regarding the world cup when the world cup is in Saudi Arabia really demonstrates the people who are interested in this story because of following football and those interested because American propoganda told them to be.
Lol I don't care about fifa trash. I am not complaining about where the WC is, as fifa is corrupt to no end. I didn't know the WC will be in Saudi Arabia because I don't care about anything fifa. Didn't even imply that NC is worse than Saudi Arabia. I knew the WC was in qatar because a couple thousand Immigrants died in the construction of the Stadions. The meme was about Qatar and they talked about Saudi Arabia, so I expressed my confusion but apparently that makes me brainwashed lol
Uninformed jackass because I point out that his rant about Saudi Arabia is a little weird considering the fact that the post is about Qatar and not Saudi Arabia.
If you think a little about the post, you realize that it makes no point about whether or not Saudi Arabia is worse or better than nc. Neither did I. And if you think a little more you realize that the meme could be understood that fifa is pushing more and more the limits of their fans patience by making bad decisions repeatably. And through that, not even comparing Qatar with nc. In other words, the comment that I responded to talks about a party that is not part of the meme for no reason, and understands the meme in one precise way as alternative understanding would render the rant even more strange.
But I am uninformed jackass, for pointing at that... ok buddy.
English is not my native tongue and sometimes I forgot that Korea is not spelled with a c, like e.g. in french. That happens if you speak more than one language. But if all my "uninformed and jackassish"-ness is that, I will die happily.
Also If I were a Japanese citizen and I wouldn't appreciate north Korea sending rockets towards Japan while those rockets might be nuclear, and that causes me to be more afraid of north Korea than Saudi Arabia, am I then also brainwashed by the us?
In case you are mad that I don't write "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" or "DPRK" but north Korea. Well, I also don't call south Korea "republic of Korea" or ROK. I also don't call Germany "Feberal republic of Germany". But if you care some much about that please call it by the proper name, 조선민주주의인민공화국, or at least, Chosŏn Minjujuŭi Inmin Konghwaguk. Thanks for not being uninformed and jackassish .
Yeah that's in 11 years I think lol. Still though the point stands
No prob comrade, 2034 and 2024 can look very similar due to us being so used to seeing 202* dates. I wouldn't delete though, the fact that it's spoken about in media as a fine choice for 2034 still means your point is correct
The men's world cup is still 3 years away and the women payled in NZ this year though so I'm not sure that you're referring to?
Are you really suggesting the DPRK is worse than Qatar? Lmao.
Only the US will kill 20 percent of a population, establish a right wing military dictatorship in the south, and paint the democratic and progressive north as an evil regime worse than an absolute monarchy.
That's a good point. Let me amend her post:
Only the US and America Jr. will kill 20 percent of a population, establish a right wing military dictatorship in the south, and paint the democratic and progressive north as an evil regime worse than an absolute monarchy.
Oh, the country where after ww2 a waffen ss tattoo would get you in.
y'all been taking some Ls lately. If I were Canadian I'd pretend to be American
Doesn't change anything. Most of the US allies are US vassals nowadays.
Just a small correction: a vassal is a person subservient to a feudal lord. A vessel is a container of some sort or a ship.
Korea has lots of big stadiums and the people there seems to like football so why couldn't they host a world cup?
I don’t think the DPRK wants to give an opportunity to basically any country in the world to plant spies. Considering the US used visits of the Atomic Energy Commission to infiltrate the DPRK in the 90s, welcoming thousands and thousands of difficult to vet corporate reps sounds like an open invitation for infiltration.
Yeah I don't think they shouldn't be allowed, but I also believe it would be a bad idea.
Well according to a .world poster in this thread that you and I can't see from our instance, the DPRK has slaves. But don't worry, this won't happen because a lemmy.ca user thinks that "Letting that many foreigners into North Korea would be a PR disaster for the Country."
I'd love to say it would be a PR disaster for American news, but realistically people have become too invested in the American Cinematic Universe to be swayed by what visitors have to say.
The lib I work with believes all the nonsense about North Korea and I've tried explaining to him that North Korea literally has non-North Korean tour guides who absolutely allow you to go where you want but usually prefer if you don't because no one would be able to communicate with you if you got lost, and your vacation would be wasted if you had no idea where to go, but he believes that it's all just a show, as though any country on the planet actually puts in that kind of effort to convince foreigners. Every time I tell him there are literally people who've posted positive news in regards to being there, or about a non-North Korean who works there, he still wants to believe what the news says or whatever negative claims are being made about it, and so he challenged me to go to North Korea on vacation and 'find out the truth for both of us' (he already believes I'll come back with horror stories), and so I challenged him and asked "If I go there and find out that it's all nonsense, that the country is fine and peaceful, would you believe me?". I personally hate traveling, and going on vacation anywhere is a chore I loathe, and so surely if I go to such effort then he'll believe me, right? His response was a reluctant "I'll be more likely to believe it"
This guy doesn't want to believe he's been lied to about North Korea; literally no amount of evidence will sway him; it's almost like this is some kind of investment for him (I say him, but this applies to libs in general).
Uncritical support for the DPRK in its heroic struggle to liberate occupied Korea from the genocidal American empire.
Uncritical support for the DPRK in its heroic struggle to liberate occupied Football from the genocidal FIFA empire.
Lmao the entire liberal media establishment has literally spent the last week defending a waffen ss volunteer.
But… but… Galicia was judenfrei when he joined, he couldn’t have been a Nazi!
Fascism is when I don't like a government, and the more I dislike it the more fascist it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea
During the campaign, conventional weapons such as explosives, incendiary bombs, and napalm destroyed nearly all of the country's cities and towns, including an estimated 85% of its buildings.
A total of 635,000 tons of bombs, including 32,557 tons of napalm, were dropped on Korea. By comparison, the U.S. dropped 1.6 million tons in the European theater and 500,000 tons in the Pacific theater during all of World War II (including 160,000 on Japan). North Korea ranks alongside Cambodia (500,000 tons), Laos (2 million tons), and South Vietnam (4 million tons) as among the most heavily-bombed countries in history.
In an interview with U.S. Air Force historians in 1988, USAF General Curtis LeMay, who was also head of the U.S. Strategic Air Command, commented on efforts to win the war as a whole, including the strategic bombing campaign, saying “Right at the start of the war, unofficially, I slipped a message in "under the carpet" in the Pentagon that we ought to turn SAC lose with some incendiaries on some North Korean towns. The answer came back, under the carpet again, that there would be too many civilian casualties; we couldn't do anything like that. We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, some way or another, and some in South Korea, too......Over a period of three years or so we killed off, what, 20 percent of the population of Korea, as direct casualties of war or from starvation and exposure? Over a period of three years, this seemed to be acceptable to everybody, but to kill a few people at the start right away, no, we can't seem to stomach that.”
Sahr-Conway Lanz, who holds a Ph.D. in the history of American foreign relations, has written extensively about the legacy and impact on American discourse on the international norm of noncombatant immunity. He states:
"During the war, American military and civilian officials stretched the term "military target" to include virtually all human-made structures, capitalizing on the vague distinction between the military and civilian segments of an enemy society. They came to apply the logic of total war to the destruction of the civil infrastructure in North Korea. Because almost any building could serve a military purpose, even if a minor one, nearly the entire physical infrastructure behind enemy lines was deemed a military target and open to attack. This expansive definition, along with the optimism about sparing civilians that is reinforced, worked to obscure in American awareness the suffering of Korean civilians in which U.S. firebombing was contributing."
The song was inspired by Korean war veteran that John McCrea met in a bar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Rgsihd6WM
And this is why Americans should be completely ignored on the topic of Korea.
@Hyggyldy@sffa.community that feeling gnawing at the back of your awareness is the realization that you've been duped by the most prolificly evil entity to ever exist on the planet
Won't realize anything. When I showed this article to my liberal friend he doubled down and said that while civilian deaths were unfortunate, it was a proportional response to Kim invading the South and compared it to Hitler invading Poland. Its veryt rare that shit like this gets through.
Hey I too know a lib I can't get through to; this guy however doesn't know nearly enough about history to try and sound informed; he instead spouts whatever comes to mind, for example: when I told him about what had been going on in Donbas until the war, and that Ukraine wanted the land but not the people, he argued for ethnic cleansing in the form of forcing all the Russians there to leave, and it was enough that the Ukrainian government wanted them gone for him to say that. When I brought up that the US is causing major issues with Taiwan, his response was "Do you believe that China does bad things?", and then wanted to start talking about the Uyghurs even though.....it has literally no relation to the situation with Taiwan. He pretends that countries not being democracies is the reason he supports the US intervening or invading many nations, and when I point out that Ukraine has shut down many left wing parties, he then pivots and says Putin does it too with a face as though he's said something really clever.
I've spent hours trying to educate him about what's going on in many countries the US intervenes in but the truth is this guy just inherently supports US empire.
Your friend may be different, but I suspect he's using what little historical info he has to try and lend legitimacy to his claims but the truth is he already knows who he supports (just not why).
It’s not a pissing contest, but I still believe Nazi Germany takes the cake in that regard.
its certainly possible, as someone living under the former example and 85 years separated from the latter, its impossible for me to say
Death to america/nazis!
"During the war, American military and civilian officials stretched the term "military target" to include virtually all human-made structures, capitalizing on the vague distinction between the military and civilian segments of an enemy society. They came to apply the logic of total war to the destruction of the civil infrastructure in North Korea. Because almost any building could serve a military purpose, even if a minor one, nearly the entire physical infrastructure behind enemy lines was deemed a military target and open to attack. This expansive definition, along with the optimism about sparing civilians that is reinforced, worked to obscure in American awareness the suffering of Korean civilians in which U.S. firebombing was contributing."
One of the things I never understood is why Western countries (as we're not the only ones who do this) bother coming up with these laws and rules of engagement and such if they're just going to basically be interpreted in the most liberal sense to allow one to do whatever they want. Take that adviser to Trump who suggested sending out a drone to 'deal' with migrants before they crossed the US border or entered American waters because they wouldn't be protected by the US constitution at that point. What even is the point of these laws if the intent is ignored and people simply find a way to play the system?
the mask of civility is the thin veneer that liberals use to hide their agenda
it's related to the difference between materialist and idealist perspectives
if you claim to uphold lofty ideals, then you can just claim the material failure to live up to those ideals is an oversight, mistake, accident, victim-blame etc
this is also why plausible deniability is a critical aspect of many operations, it was those few bad people that caused the bad things, not the institutional structure that is dedicated to lofty ideals
Fascism is when media tells me the country is evil bad country. What? Fascism has a definition and the DPRK doesn't come even close to fitting it? Bah, impossible. Trustworthy Sources (social media echo chambers) told me that Kim is an evil bad dictator man.
I hate people who don't know what they're talking about
Idk, people were leaping to the defense of that Waffen-SS guy in Canada
America is hosting the world cup next so.....yeah literally at this point anything goes. The only way it could be worse is if the literal Nazi regime was back and they were hosting the world cup.
Or it's fatherland US of A where Nazis are national heroes
Oh... wait they already did
It's probably not logistically viable, but as a matter of principle, there is absolutely no reason why DPRK couldn't host to world cup. It's gone to plenty of worse countries.
So there's just libs in Hexbear now? No way to separate one from the other? What did we gain from this?
Technically its not "in hexbear" because its another lemmy instance, we can just see it. If you dont want to, change your main page to local.
Some people like the opportunity to dunk, and federation has brought some comrades over to our side. Others do not like the change in culture. Personally I change my mind on it depending on my mood.
what did we gain from this
still waiting to find out tbh
Death to America
I've gotten to use PPB a lot more the last couple months. In fact I never used it before so that was cool. Otherwise it just adds some doomscrolling capabilities and also a way to see comrades dogpiling assholes. But the downsides are pretty apparent
an entirely reasonable position they're the organisation to set up football matches not the world police
And what would be the problem with NK hosting the world cup huh? Not that it would happen since the WC is nothing more than an ad for countries, you get to host it if you pay the FIFA.
