What is the realistic alternative? At this point I’m just happy if the Republicans stop gaining power. Once they are not so crazy, then we can move further left.
When was the last time the Dems got more left wing? Biden is the one pulling the shit in the meme and doomed American railroads by breaking that strike, Obama's admin is the reason slave markets could open in Libya, Clinton ratified NAFTA and did all that stuff, this is not a conclusive list of any of their deeds.
How could you possibly drag that party left? They have resisted turning left at every turn largely in spite of their base and they keep getting elected. I personally don't think it could be done and the alternative is to either vote 3rd party or spoil your ballot when the time comes around.
Hoo boy. Another propaganda bot looking to shill for the Dems and ease the way for a bipartisan bill that legalizes feeding homeless people into woodchippers.
Shut the fuck up you ignorant shitlib, Biden's administration's been racing to out-fascist the damn Republicans already, like building Trump's wall and racing us towards nuclear hell
hexbear is explicitly communist. Elizabeth Warren is "capitalist to [her] bones" and Sanders bent the knee to the party machine and can't even manage to be on the right side of geopolitics.
No, we are explicitly non-sectarian leftists who have a penchant for ultra- and Trot-bashing (though PSL does do good things here and there edit:but aren't trot?). So I misspoke on that one, even though I'm not the person you were talking to.
Little late but yeah PSL isn’t a Trot party. I think the misconception is due to them splitting from Workers World Party which started out as Trotskyist.
What's it like being so politically and socially illiterate that you think that anybody would spend the effort to put bots on a tiny communist internet forum? Literally just think about how fucking dumb what you just said is.
The Dems are equally as fascist as the Republicans Obama built more border wall and deported more immigrants than Trump. The only place that maybe, MAYBE, you will get some actually progressive (gag) policy is in certain democratic states and cities, but it is incredibly telling that Democrats adopted Republican healthcare reforms (which fucking suck and had improved thing very little) after running on universal healthcare and having the majorities to implement it. Keep kicking the football Charlie, I'm sure you'll get it this time.
Or maybe Democrats deserve some criticism from the real left for once if they’re going to pretend to be left.
I would rather ask why you care about an election thirteen months away which should just take a couple minutes rather than doing literally anything beyond that. If you can’t, that’s fine, but don’t act like just voting is going to stop the US from declining into fascism, which feels increasingly more inevitable if it isn’t already there.
The USA is already fascist. I could list out all the technical reasons why, but what else do you call a country that sends weapons and money to actual, real life, militant Nazis?
I don’t think it’s about dragging that party to the left, but weakening then republican party enough that a third more left leaning party can realistically run without taking so many votes from Dems that the republican win elections.
The Dems and Republicans share most of their policy, the Republicans are usually just more open about how hostile they are to minorities. How would this supposedly left wing party peel off republican voters, not that many dems, but also not be openly bigoted? There are too many contradictions there I can't see your logic
What do you mean "once they are not so crazy?" Both parties have only been moving further right, and the Republicans have no reason to stop when they know that every time they push their side of the Overton window right, the Democrats will match them on their side to lock it in.
The DNC is perfectly happy continuing to enforce whatever bullshit the GOP passes, they only wait for permission to enforce it. We’re only going to have an ethical government when it is built from the ground up to be ethical, free from our current constitution’s bias towards wealthy land owners such as the founding fathers who wrote it.
If they moved farther left then they would stop the Republicans so much easier. People like getting stuff for paying taxes, if they did even the most tepid soc-dem shit instead of whatever bullshit they're on, they'd rule unopposed for a century. How many times does someone like Nancy Pelosi have to say that they need a "strong Republican party" before you believe that will not help except by accident?
Feel free to cast your individual vote for Dems if it makes you more comfortable. It doesn't really matter and there's usually no meaningful choice anyways.
But if you're spending any other time trying to support them, like joining the party or going to some protest that accomplishes nothing or trying to convince others to do so, I would recommend taking that energy and putting it into left organizing as part of a local leftist organization.
Our power as the working class is actually rooted in collective action, including labor actions to withhold labor, to disrupt capitalist structures of control, to shut down infrastructure, to demand attention for our causes. There are many more of us than there are in the ruling class (the class that controls the Democrats), but we fail to realize our power because we are disorganized and full of false consciousness about how the world operates. The reason the ruling class wants you to focus on bourgeois electoralism is that it is no threat to them. Being embedded in the work that is or becomes a threat is much more powerful. You'll find that you punch above your weight (in power) in a competent left organization, way more than any Democrat activity ever offered.
The realistic alternative is supporting organized labor, mutual aid, local candidacies and local issues that might actually accomplish something tangible. Picking up a gun if you have to. Vote for fun if you want but know that it's a ritual you perform in place of politics.
What is the realistic alternative? At this point I’m just happy if the Republicans stop gaining power. Once they are not so crazy, then we can move further left.
When was the last time the Dems got more left wing? Biden is the one pulling the shit in the meme and doomed American railroads by breaking that strike, Obama's admin is the reason slave markets could open in Libya, Clinton ratified NAFTA and did all that
stuff, this is not a conclusive list of any of their deeds.
How could you possibly drag that party left? They have resisted turning left at every turn largely in spite of their base and they keep getting elected. I personally don't think it could be done and the alternative is to either vote 3rd party or spoil your ballot when the time comes around.
Hoo boy. Another propaganda bot looking to chill the Dem vote and ease the way for the Republican fascists.
Hoo boy. Another propaganda bot looking to shill for the Dems and ease the way for a bipartisan bill that legalizes feeding homeless people into woodchippers.
Shut the fuck up you ignorant shitlib, Biden's administration's been racing to out-fascist the damn Republicans already, like building Trump's wall and racing us towards nuclear hell
Another lemmy lemming jumping off a cliff and chastising everyone smart enough not to follow
Are the bots with you in the room right now?
We're not bots we're paid shills smh my head get it right
Wait the rest of you are getting paid?
Speak for yourself
hexbear is explicitly communist. Elizabeth Warren is "capitalist to [her] bones" and Sanders bent the knee to the party machine and can't even manage to be on the right side of geopolitics.
what do you fucking expect from us?
Wait, has Hexbear actually explicitly stated itself as a communist instance?
No, we are explicitly non-sectarian leftists who have a penchant for ultra- and Trot-bashing (though PSL does do good things here and there edit:but aren't trot?). So I misspoke on that one, even though I'm not the person you were talking to.
PSL aint trot
i used and meant small-c
we all want the classless moneyless society etc etc, the disagreements are on how to get there from here
Little late but yeah PSL isn’t a Trot party. I think the misconception is due to them splitting from Workers World Party which started out as Trotskyist.
small-c
Nah, we're just devout followers of
hell yeah dude
What's it like being so politically and socially illiterate that you think that anybody would spend the effort to put bots on a tiny communist internet forum? Literally just think about how fucking dumb what you just said is.
The Dems are equally as fascist as the Republicans Obama built more border wall and deported more immigrants than Trump. The only place that maybe, MAYBE, you will get some actually progressive (gag) policy is in certain democratic states and cities, but it is incredibly telling that Democrats adopted Republican healthcare reforms (which fucking suck and had improved thing very little) after running on universal healthcare and having the majorities to implement it. Keep kicking the football Charlie, I'm sure you'll get it this time.
Hey, that’s not true!
Since I’m also a bot and not from Hexbear, I’ll just have to resort to mentioning @WHATABOUTISM_DETECTOR@hexbear.net since I can’t trigger it :(
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Whataboutism? What about deez nuts?
Thanks for triggering lol. Sadly, the bot’s response will probably only be findable on Hexbear since you deleted the parent comment.
Ah dang. I only meant to edit it. Must have been a bit on the stoned side
You can always undelete the comment
🐖 💩🏀🏀
Or maybe Democrats deserve some criticism from the real left for once if they’re going to pretend to be left.
I would rather ask why you care about an election thirteen months away which should just take a couple minutes rather than doing literally anything beyond that. If you can’t, that’s fine, but don’t act like just voting is going to stop the US from declining into fascism, which feels increasingly more inevitable if it isn’t already there.
I am a propaganda posting robot and I am hiding in your walls
I am the hottest and sexiest and most propagandaist bot dont listen to these fake fools I am The Poster
The USA is already fascist. I could list out all the technical reasons why, but what else do you call a country that sends weapons and money to actual, real life, militant Nazis?
I don’t think it’s about dragging that party to the left, but weakening then republican party enough that a third more left leaning party can realistically run without taking so many votes from Dems that the republican win elections.
A weak republican party is against the interests of the democratic party, they literally say it themselves
The Dems and Republicans share most of their policy, the Republicans are usually just more open about how hostile they are to minorities. How would this supposedly left wing party peel off republican voters, not that many dems, but also not be openly bigoted? There are too many contradictions there I can't see your logic
What do you mean "once they are not so crazy?" Both parties have only been moving further right, and the Republicans have no reason to stop when they know that every time they push their side of the Overton window right, the Democrats will match them on their side to lock it in.
Dawg the Democrats have been, they are, and they will continue to finance and promote far-right Republican candidates as a campaign strategy.
They prefer to run against candidates like that in the general. There won't be an end by design
are you under the impression that the US is a democracy?
The DNC is perfectly happy continuing to enforce whatever bullshit the GOP passes, they only wait for permission to enforce it. We’re only going to have an ethical government when it is built from the ground up to be ethical, free from our current constitution’s bias towards wealthy land owners such as the founding fathers who wrote it.
If they moved farther left then they would stop the Republicans so much easier. People like getting stuff for paying taxes, if they did even the most tepid soc-dem shit instead of whatever bullshit they're on, they'd rule unopposed for a century. How many times does someone like Nancy Pelosi have to say that they need a "strong Republican party" before you believe that will not help except by accident?
Feel free to cast your individual vote for Dems if it makes you more comfortable. It doesn't really matter and there's usually no meaningful choice anyways.
But if you're spending any other time trying to support them, like joining the party or going to some protest that accomplishes nothing or trying to convince others to do so, I would recommend taking that energy and putting it into left organizing as part of a local leftist organization.
Our power as the working class is actually rooted in collective action, including labor actions to withhold labor, to disrupt capitalist structures of control, to shut down infrastructure, to demand attention for our causes. There are many more of us than there are in the ruling class (the class that controls the Democrats), but we fail to realize our power because we are disorganized and full of false consciousness about how the world operates. The reason the ruling class wants you to focus on bourgeois electoralism is that it is no threat to them. Being embedded in the work that is or becomes a threat is much more powerful. You'll find that you punch above your weight (in power) in a competent left organization, way more than any Democrat activity ever offered.
The realistic alternative is supporting organized labor, mutual aid, local candidacies and local issues that might actually accomplish something tangible. Picking up a gun if you have to. Vote for fun if you want but know that it's a ritual you perform in place of politics.
Lmao it’s a marginal difference, so little that your energy is 1000x better spent worrying about and doing other things
What are the democrats better on? From where I'm standing, they're continuing trump era policies, and in some cases making things worse
Edit: they didn't respond to a single one of us 🤔
Are you referring to me not responding?
I don’t care enough to respond.
You just did
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