Funny, the only people in my country arguing pro-nuclear are the right-wingers.
On the internet, it's always muricans who have these galaxy brain takes on nuclear energy. Did they show you all a documentary about the "benefits" of nuclear energy when you were in 5th grade?
We're talking about toxic waste that can make entire regions uninhabitable for millennia, where our current containment procedure has proven to be insufficient, and you want more of this shit? 200 years ago europeans were still shitting from a plank, and you trust the energy industry of all people to have a secure plan for 20k years?
Nah, thanks, I'd rather take my chances with renewables.
Did they show you all a documentary about the “benefits” of nuclear energy when you were in 5th grade?
Nah. American culture is nuclear-phobic, people don't understand it and fear it. Americans posting are reacting against the anti-nuclear stuff one normally hears.
We’re talking about toxic waste that can make entire regions uninhabitable for millennia
Also true for fossil fuels, especially if you compare area contaminated per energy generated.
And fossil fuels are currently on course to make the whole planet less habitable for millennia. So even if nuclear contamination occurs (and it is preventable with very basic safety procedures), a few new deserts are preferable to the whole Earth on fire.
you trust the energy industry
No one here trusts any industry to not kill you if you turn your back to them. But nuclear works better than fossil, whether under neoliberalism or socialism.
Nah, thanks, I’d rather take my chances with renewables.
Practically no one prefers nuclear to renewables. The problem is renewables are more expensive (less efficient) and don't work as well in every climate. There's a reason only a few rich countries have really invested in them (and they're still a small fraction of the energy sector).
A, we have rules against debate-bro bullshit that includes splitting posts into segments, and B, then stop using so much power if we can't afford it.
Renewables create enough energy, it's mostly a matter of energy storage and lack of investment/research atm, due to the energy lobby actively undermining funding as actual green energy would cut into their profits.
The lower efficiency may be an argument for dirt poor countries, but it's a non-argument for any western country, yet these countries also use your line of argumentation. If you're not from a developing nation, it's just privileged nonsense.
then stop using so much power if we can’t afford it.
Then we need degrowth. While it might be interesting to debate that as an academic issue, I don't believe it's possible to convince the broader public that we need to intentionally shrink our economy.
I do not mean to debate you (at least not for the sake of debating) - I believe we are here to practice mutual enlightenment. For example, you asked if Americans got nuclear propaganda in school - and I answered.
Try as I might (checking the Code of Conduct, TOS ), I cannot find any rules against "debate-bro bullshit" generally or "splitting posts into segments" particularly. (I've avoided doing so here to be polite to you.) If such rules exist, please be so kind as to link me to them. I get that debate-broism can be problematic, but I do need it defined for me because the line between discussion and debate is naturally vague.
I split your post up for clarity, so you can tell what I am replying to. It also makes reading easier, because each point stands on its own and you don't have to read the full thing if you don't want to. I did not mean to cherry-pick anything you said or attack any of your points. Rather - you disagreed with OP's perspective, I expanded on what that perspective is. If you have a problem with the way I said anything in particular - please point it out so I may learn and grow.
You are right that power consumption should be cut back generally. Under capitalism, consumption is cut through the regressive mechanism of pricing poor people out, while it's really the rich and middle class in the developed world that consume too much, but the general principle of cutting consumption is great.
However, the real question is how to generate the power that we can't forego. "Dirt-poor countries" is where most people live, and Western countries actively prevent them from developing nuclear industries, sometimes using fears of nuclear energy as arguments. In the medium term, they must be allowed to keep using fossil fuels because it's most economic and because the developed world owes them a debt for both exploitation and historic pollution. (This puts even greater pressure on the developed world to switch to non-fossil-fuel energy sources, whichever are available the fastest, without relying on the assumption that new technologies will solve existing issues.) Additionally, the change to renewables requires the closing of old power plants - and the anti-nuclear groups counter-productively wish to see nuclear plants closed before fossil fuel ones (which means more CO2 emissions). So it's a valid topic of conversation wherever you live.
Neither OP nor I advocate investing in nuclear energy instead of renewable energy when one is free to make that choice. The reason for saying "nuclear is good" is to reverse the misconceptions about it and to highlight how much worse fossil fuels are despite escaping the same stigma.
I hope I've expressed myself in a manner to your liking even if we still disagree. I respect your position 100% - I am simply interested in describing my own.
Sincerely and with warm regards,
Your Comrade Audeamus
Funny, the US government accidentally dropped a nuke that didn't explode in a lake near a city in my country and people still leave there.
Nuclear waste can be treated and is way cleaner and efficient than what we have now. Also, stop exporting the politics of your country to the entire world.
Funny, the only people in my country arguing pro-nuclear are the right-wingers.
On the internet, it's always muricans who have these galaxy brain takes on nuclear energy. Did they show you all a documentary about the "benefits" of nuclear energy when you were in 5th grade?
We're talking about toxic waste that can make entire regions uninhabitable for millennia, where our current containment procedure has proven to be insufficient, and you want more of this shit? 200 years ago europeans were still shitting from a plank, and you trust the energy industry of all people to have a secure plan for 20k years?
Nah, thanks, I'd rather take my chances with renewables.
Nah. American culture is nuclear-phobic, people don't understand it and fear it. Americans posting are reacting against the anti-nuclear stuff one normally hears.
Also true for fossil fuels, especially if you compare area contaminated per energy generated.
And fossil fuels are currently on course to make the whole planet less habitable for millennia. So even if nuclear contamination occurs (and it is preventable with very basic safety procedures), a few new deserts are preferable to the whole Earth on fire.
No one here trusts any industry to not kill you if you turn your back to them. But nuclear works better than fossil, whether under neoliberalism or socialism.
Practically no one prefers nuclear to renewables. The problem is renewables are more expensive (less efficient) and don't work as well in every climate. There's a reason only a few rich countries have really invested in them (and they're still a small fraction of the energy sector).
A, we have rules against debate-bro bullshit that includes splitting posts into segments, and B, then stop using so much power if we can't afford it.
Renewables create enough energy, it's mostly a matter of energy storage and lack of investment/research atm, due to the energy lobby actively undermining funding as actual green energy would cut into their profits.
The lower efficiency may be an argument for dirt poor countries, but it's a non-argument for any western country, yet these countries also use your line of argumentation. If you're not from a developing nation, it's just privileged nonsense.
Then we need degrowth. While it might be interesting to debate that as an academic issue, I don't believe it's possible to convince the broader public that we need to intentionally shrink our economy.
Dear Comrade Hog of House Wild,
I do not mean to debate you (at least not for the sake of debating) - I believe we are here to practice mutual enlightenment. For example, you asked if Americans got nuclear propaganda in school - and I answered.
Try as I might (checking the Code of Conduct, TOS ), I cannot find any rules against "debate-bro bullshit" generally or "splitting posts into segments" particularly. (I've avoided doing so here to be polite to you.) If such rules exist, please be so kind as to link me to them. I get that debate-broism can be problematic, but I do need it defined for me because the line between discussion and debate is naturally vague.
I split your post up for clarity, so you can tell what I am replying to. It also makes reading easier, because each point stands on its own and you don't have to read the full thing if you don't want to. I did not mean to cherry-pick anything you said or attack any of your points. Rather - you disagreed with OP's perspective, I expanded on what that perspective is. If you have a problem with the way I said anything in particular - please point it out so I may learn and grow.
You are right that power consumption should be cut back generally. Under capitalism, consumption is cut through the regressive mechanism of pricing poor people out, while it's really the rich and middle class in the developed world that consume too much, but the general principle of cutting consumption is great.
However, the real question is how to generate the power that we can't forego. "Dirt-poor countries" is where most people live, and Western countries actively prevent them from developing nuclear industries, sometimes using fears of nuclear energy as arguments. In the medium term, they must be allowed to keep using fossil fuels because it's most economic and because the developed world owes them a debt for both exploitation and historic pollution. (This puts even greater pressure on the developed world to switch to non-fossil-fuel energy sources, whichever are available the fastest, without relying on the assumption that new technologies will solve existing issues.) Additionally, the change to renewables requires the closing of old power plants - and the anti-nuclear groups counter-productively wish to see nuclear plants closed before fossil fuel ones (which means more CO2 emissions). So it's a valid topic of conversation wherever you live.
Neither OP nor I advocate investing in nuclear energy instead of renewable energy when one is free to make that choice. The reason for saying "nuclear is good" is to reverse the misconceptions about it and to highlight how much worse fossil fuels are despite escaping the same stigma.
I hope I've expressed myself in a manner to your liking even if we still disagree. I respect your position 100% - I am simply interested in describing my own.
Sincerely and with warm regards, Your Comrade Audeamus
Funny, the US government accidentally dropped a nuke that didn't explode in a lake near a city in my country and people still leave there.
Nuclear waste can be treated and is way cleaner and efficient than what we have now. Also, stop exporting the politics of your country to the entire world.
Is this a bit?
:this:
Mining for coal similarly destroys areas right?