Hey, this is something that is eating me up lately and I'm not sure what to do or where to turn. Some context to the title:
I have a very good friend who I've known for years (he and his fiancée are both going to be members of my own wedding party) who I care about a lot. That being said, he comes from a family where his parents started their own company and both they and his brother do landlording on the side. He usually has a cycle of thinking about joining in and then backing out, and he is back in that mindset again. He's very frugal so he's saved up quite a but and after getting furloughed for a while he seems a bit more serious than usual. He's aware of my politics and I think I've been slowly making him see the light, but I'm at a roadblock. How do I tell this guy that I don't think he should be a landlord because they are scum, without also saying that I essentially think his family are scum? Is it even possible? I just feel like I need to say something if I want to call myself a leftist actually dedicated to making the world a better place. Thoughts?
I tried to talk someone out of it once by playing it off like: "yikes, wow I could never be in charge of someones life like that. You literally have to make people homeless for being poor and idk about you but I could never do that. It just seems so skeevey but you do you."
It essentially just got them to stop talking about being a landlord to me. I don't think landlords feel shame.
True, also the mileage may be better since op seems closer to their pal than I was to mine.
:gui-better:
Don't make it too personal about the family or they'll get defensive. Humanize renters, and emphasize 'do you really want to get income by exploiting the most desperate people?' etc.
I know a slowly-being-pilled proto-landlord, and they experience deep guilt at getting income from renters. The trick is to turn that guilt away from 'I will be an extra goodest landlord to make up for it' into 'I will cease being a landlord and spend my time not being a class traitor'.
I think gorn is correct; any attack or perceived attack on their moral position directly will be perceived as personal one, and will further entrench their position. I think this will require a "street epistemology" approach, which in practice (if they are willing to engage with an open mind) will look like a Socratic-style questioning that leads up to the inception of the idea that it would be exploitative and bad to become a landlord.
This guy does it with religious people -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic8O-m1lAZo (I don't believe he is affiliated with the 'new atheism' movement thing that melted down into bigotry in the 2010's). It is interesting to see how he maneuvers to be as non-adversarial as possible. And remember that it is not about changing minds but leading someone through a logical chain that undermines their confidence in a belief that hopefully they will then dismantle on their own.
This is completely it. You can't change someone's mind; you can only provide a situation, a moment, in which they might change their mind. You describe it perfectly, and I also am instantly in love with the phrase 'street epistemology' > :af-heart:
Edit: I think gorn had very constructive advice.
That is a tough one.
It might not be possible, and I think a lot of people living in this system have been conditioned to not see it as leeching. There's also the dimension that property is the true wealth-building mechanism in this system, so they would probably may see it as self-handicapping for idealistic purposes, or even as an unnecessary risk to their security to not do it.If all else fails, maybe you could convince them to only go after commercial property so he is a middleman to a middleman, rather than lording over individuals? Morality aside, isn't this literally the worst possible time to invest in a bubble? Right before a crash? Or were they talking about waiting until the shit really hits?Convince him his money is much better invested in an Index Fund, or Robinhood lol. Coronavirus is making all of us feel insecure about our financial futures, and it's easy to see how someone in a capitalist society can view housing as a safe investment. Really your best bet is to advocate for different avenues of financial security, instead of "you shouldn't profit off of this thing that is very easy for you to personally participate in".
Mao says the first form of liberalism is avoiding ideological consistency and arguments with people because they are your friends or family, and doing so is painful and difficult. Dogmatic sloganeering aside, this is actually hard to implement; I haven't cut ties with my family and many of my friends still stuck in libbrain or worse. You might have to acknowledge that holding a realistic view on landlords isn't compatible with not condemning his family. This might mean you hold off on critique all together, or just discuss with him on different lines. It's not an easy choice, and I wouldn't fault you for putting your friendship first.
How do I tell this guy that I don’t think he should be a landlord because they are scum, without also saying that I essentially think his family are scum
use the dialectic method
I have a follow-up question for people who know shit:
I'm in the position to buy a house soon, and given the typical stock of the city I'm buying in, it's very likely to be either a duplex or have an ADU in the back. What's the best way that I, as a communist, can use this resource to provide housing for people in a non-exploitative way? "Rent" it out at essentially the cost of utilities? I'd say form a co-op with it, but I think that having a co-op of 2 people where one has more than 50% of the shares is a pretty undemocratic way to do things as well. Any thoughts?
I've kinda been in that dude's shoes before (my parents wanted me to rent out their condo and manage the property when they went back to their home country). In cases like this where family is involved, he may be looking for an excuse other than the moral/ethical ones.
Is this in America? If so, remind him of the looming renter crisis https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/30percent-of-americans-missed-their-housing-payments-in-june.html . Many people lost jobs just like his, and continue to lose them daily. Does he really think this is a good investment to be making now? Even if eviction courts are in session wherever you are, this is constant instability for his investment. Even places that seem more stable income-wise will still have people who lose their job, don't have a ton saved up, and with the higher rent prices rapidly lose the ability to keep up with payments.
When pointing this out you can also make subtle arguments like walking him through what eviction looks like, how it's not going to be single people who can crash on a friends' couch if they really need a home that bad, it'll be families, especially those with kids that he'll most likely need to evict, as their financial burdens are greater and more susceptible to even 1 parent getting laid off. Eviction takes time, and legal proceedings. Time that he'll spend not making money, and time he'll have to spend in court having the renter plea their case and beg for leniency. Sure, the judge won't grant it, he'll win easily, but how many times does he want to go through that just to make some side money?
Point out how much easier and stabler investment in stocks is. Unemployment and homelessness doesn't hurt the stock market, it can be a very stable investment with little work, etc. Hell, open a coffee shop. For the foreseeable future you really don't need much real estate, and enough businesses have gone under that he can grab up some decent storefronts for cheap now.