All the time I hear about "the CIA will coup this", "America supported that", "These people opposed US Imperialism". A topic could have absolutely nothing to do with america and involve a place on the exact opposite part of the earth and Americans will find a way to make it about America. For example, people talk about Russian politics and Putin yet seem to support Putin wholeheartedly because his Russia "opposes american imperialism". This framing of the conversation seemingly ignoring how Russian people feel about his reign, how the EU has been having to drag america into the latest sanctions against Russia, and how for the last 4 years America had an ostensibly Pro-Russian president. I swear American Leftists don't care at all about Capitalism or Communism and just want to oppose the United States. Most of the world and people don't care about American influence, let alone to such an obsessive degree.

  • entrancefee [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    "just the fact of the world as it is" is just pseudo-materialism. most of what you say is just left-wing american exceptionalism

    • Wojackhorseman2 [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      I was just making shorthand for “this is the current world order and there are several events in history that led us to this point and in turn they will influence the future ” that is materialism.

      Your conclusion isn’t even materialist at all it’s just a want that you’re not basing on anything other than want.

      There is nothing exceptional about America other than its depravity and it’s wild expropriation of labor and wealth from the imperialized world and from its bipoc population throughout its history. It’s ability as a world power is a result of “exceptional” exploitation of those people. You may not like that it wields that power but it does, and those things did happen. And the vast majority of Americans have historically been complicit in that theft and beneficiaries of it.

      Again, maybe we can have a revolution one day, I would like to see it but it’s really insurmountable improbable and by the time America could have the type of cultural revolution to align themselves that way we’d probably be dead by climate change. This stuff isn’t just going away just cuz you have good opinions, look at the average person in America and it’s history and how people have acted historically to inform your assumptions that’s much more grounded in reality.

      • entrancefee [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        I really have no clue where you're getting this analysis of me basing reality on some want. I don't care about america getting a revolution anymore than any other country. Its not a real crazy idea to think america may have a revolution someday. All I'm getting from your paragraphs is america is exceptionally bad

        • Wojackhorseman2 [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Lol well I mean it is pretty bad and always has been.

          I think it’s certainly possible but it would most likely have to be when it collapses, it’s equally probable at that point, given the average type of views the average American has, that it’ll emerge as a fascist country or something as well tho.

          All I’m saying is there have been a lot of left wing pushes in America’s history which have all failed spectacularly and we’ve been repeating those patterns even up to present day bc of class relations and their intersectionality to race. Those factors made revolution exceedingly difficult, and a lot of them, hell, most have never gone away and won’t for the foreseeable future, coupling that with the state of the modern military defending capital and I think it should be easy to see how difficult it is if you think about it deeper than “well it’s certainly possible” which is the assertion i was making about how deep you’ve thought about this with the want thing.

          But look I hope you’re right. Im only trying to bring up these historical factors bc they inform the present and continue to inform the future.

          • entrancefee [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            The materialist doctrine that men are products of circumstances and upbringing, and that, therefore, changed men are products of changed circumstances and changed upbringing, forgets that it is men who change circumstances and that the educator must himself be educated -Karl Marx. Humans forge our own destinies and nothing is unchangeable and forsaken

            • Wojackhorseman2 [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              I mean that sounds nice but you’re up against a propaganda machine and 400+ years of situations that have fallouts that are more in charge of the forge than a leftist with some flowery language.

              Again I’m on your side here, i want that, I’m just asking you to think about some of this stuff a bit and not just rebuke it bc it doesn’t fit with some super bloomer view that’s like “yes I can imagine socialist America therefore socialist america.” Because it does matter you can swim against the current but it’s there. Maybe I should take some more super recent events in mind when thinking about these things but maybe consider reading some of our history and taking a real look at the state of our affairs really, there is not a real left in America. The best we ever had was the panthers and they were literally slaughtered by the feds

              But Ill agree with you, it’s certainly possible, I’m not as optimistic about the details or when but who knows. Anyway I’m going to sleep have a good day or night.