Another win for the left
This sucks. People on this site are some of the stubbornness anti-vegan assholes I've ever met. Hell even fucking conservatives I know have more empathy toward veganism and the animals than some people here it's ridiculous. All this bullshit about revolution and most can't even think past their own sensory pleasure.
Precisely.
I never experienced the level of vitriol for veganism from anyone but non-vegan leftists. It’s truly appaling and disgusting.
its actually kind of hilarious to me, as someone who initially came to the left through the vegan-to-anarchist pipeline, that this left-wing site was torn apart worse by "MUH BACON" assholes who refuse to do any self-reflection than anything else to date
Transphobia didn’t break the site, infighting between anarchists and communists didn’t break the site but the moment our comrades were asked to reflect on themselves and live by their own values they lost their shit.
This entire community was built on not giving a fuck, bullying cognitive dissonance and making fun of people for their hypocrisy. This is exactly what vcj has been doing for years! Let’s not forget that it all started because they decided to lurk and comment on the vegan comm to witch hunt ‘vcj libs’ then they got butt hurt and posted anti-vegan stuff outside.
Shame we’re losing those two mods but it’s only the beginning. I won’t be surprised if a lot of the other vegans here aren’t driven out too.
:im-vegan:
Animal liberation is intrinsically tied to other oppressions. The book that was posted and pinned here went over it especially as it ties to race - Racism as Zoological Witchcraft by Aph Ko.
I honestly was similar (a vegetarian). If I'm being honest, it was cheese that was preventing me from turning (it makes me disgusted to use this as justification for contributing to torture of animals but I'm being honest). I think what really pushed me toward veganism was an attitude shift; instead of viewing them as a punching bag, which many people do + mock them, I decided one day to just sit down and think about what they were saying, watching some videos and reading, and looking at the dairy industry in particular. That's what helped me convert. Even simple videos like Earthling Ed's speech really made me just think about what I was contributing too and whether or not that was good or bad.
I´m at exactly that point right now. When it comes to milk, a lot is just thrown away as excess. A byproduct of the meat industry much like leather. Industrial animal farms are horrifying in their own right and need to be abolished, but they do exist and me using the milk will not change one thing. At the same time, chicken that my grandmother has are all living rather good lives. They are bred to lay an egg a day already and the world could not sustain the exponential growth rate of chicken population. What would the solution be? Try to reverse breed them? Killing them all? Nature is cruel and humans are a particularly good example of that. Just like there is no etical consumption under capitalism, I don´t think there is a fully ethical solution here. Phasing out the meat industry sounds like a good step, it is perpetuating unneccessary suffering. Our entire civilisation is build on the exploitation of animals if it comes down to it. From animals that helped plow the fields, transport things, the wool, the fur, the bones, everything was usefull and neccessary at some point. I think phasing this out is good, I just dont thing being puretant about it is the way to go.
I totally get where you're coming from (in fact I basically believed exactly what you're saying here it's uncanny). For milk, I'd recommend this video just to see what really happen to get a glass of milk (CW: it might be upsetting/has explicit scenes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI). Rather than milk merely being a byproduct, the industry functions separately and rampantly.
With regards to chickens, and cows for that matter, more and more people becoming vegan will necessarily reduce how many chickens are bred; it won't happen overnight so the situation you mention about exponential growth rate of chickens wouldn't really occur.
For the fully ethical solution I think not eating animal products/using them is the baseline, seeing as those contribute to worlds of suffering to animals. I don't think it would fully be phased out unless people fully reject using the products: people eating less meat etc. is obviously preferable than doing nothing at all, but unless people reject the products, there will still be a demand for them and thus will be produced at scale + continue the suffering. In terms of a resource that just made me think about it more, I liked this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3u7hXpOm58& (no explicit scenes!).
Interesting. I guess I will have to inform myself more on the consequences each product brings with it and wether that is worth it. I dounbt I would call myself a vegan after that, but it would probably limit my consumption more. I fully agree with limiting unneccessary suffering as much as possible.
That's awesome to hear, good luck with your journey! For what it's worth, I said "I could never become vegan" probably hundreds of times, yet here I am :).
Also:
https://youtu.be/1RokWAuCkVw
posits veganism as a radical anti-ableist philosophy.
Why is this I’m comparing you to animals? As opposed to comparing animals to us?
Your entire post is predicated on your prejudice against animals. Not mine against disabled people. Jesus Christ I am disabled myself this attack stings.
Dude you need to lay off the idiotic takes about everything talking about veganism intersectionality as racist or ableist. Get better arguments. Vegans view animals as deserving of a higher level of moral consideration than non-vegans do. No one is saying cows are disabled people, only you are making that strawman; we're saying to view animals better not view humans worse.
Every one of your posts is lathered with disdain toward animals seeing as you keep calling them "fucking animals". I'll repeat it so you understand; vegans view animals with more moral consideration than you view them. You seem them as nothing more than a meal for humans, whose pain and suffering is irrelevant. We see animals as other beings which can have desires, emotions, families, and experience life.
There is no effective difference when the end result is acting like animals are the same as disabled people.
What are you talking about dude, saying we should consider animals more highly means somehow humans are moved down? This is again predicated on your view of animals being commodities.
I just remembered the omni majority silencing the indigenous vegans on the site for speaking up about veganism. Oof. So many hypocritical.
Consider this a vent thread, I'm sad and just feel more alone knowing not even this random offshoot site for leftists actually is
Western left isn’t a good reflection of the wider international socialist movement. American left isn’t a good reflection of the wider western/European left. Online American left doesn’t reflect actual American left wing movements. Don’t get me wrong, this website and community is great and I love it but you won’t agree with everything you’ll find here because the vast majority of people who use this site are straight cis white American men in their late teens to twenties.
I was disappointed by the reaction but don’t feel sad lol. Lots of based vegans around. Don’t leave. Stay and bully them, a lot of them will come around eventually.
If you want to, come to Discord so we can hang out! I feel like we’re losing the god damn fight here.
As someone who is a relatively new vegan, this has been an interesting experience for sure. The thing is, when I was omni, I never attacked vegans or got defensive. You can probably find comments if you go back far enough. I knew my position was morally indefensible and I admitted it as such.
Likewise. As soon as I was told it was wrong, I knew it was something I had to be.
I was vegetarian for a couple years and I totally knew I was a hypocrite
"rude dirtbag aesthetic is cool and good unless you're doing it because you care about animals, then you're a rude PETA vegan and I don't like you :( "
To be fair the rude dirtbag aesthetic has gradually withered on this site.
yeah, that's true. just weird to see the site pivot so quickly from "tone policing is bad" to "vegans are mean" i guess
seems like it! i think the lack of self-awareness also gets me- they don't seem to realize that their responses to being told that animal ag/exploitation is an atrocity not that different from what you're likely to end up with if you tell a random person on the street that capitalism is an atrocity. (i.e. no it's not, why are you being so rude, communists are weird and pushy)
Lol I get people calling my post dumb when I was respectful. The ableist slur is so predictable.
Literally everything we’ve made fun of for years was in full display. The reaction was disappointing but it’s also quite funny.
MLs calling for revolution want incremental change. Anarchists want to wait for lab grown meat. People who joke about praxis calling personal responsibility lib. White people calling vegan poc racist because they think the rest of the world eats the same shitty food they do. Oh you’re rude to me so I won’t be vegan now, it’s your fault I’m going to eat a steak. Etc.
I don’t like the idea of this already small community splintering but if they’re going to be so hostile then I’d rather have a based instance to go to than not have one at all.
We're already working on our own Lemmy instance. We figured cowards might do something like this.
Don’t worry in a couple years hopefully leftwing vegans will have their own leftwing version of this site lol. This is all so incredibly disappointing and a bit upsetting.
Would be surprised if there's a vegan mod left on the general team, since they've successfully purged them all.
Left because of the hatred thrown at her by the anti-vegan users and likely the ones on the general modteam.
This is all I've been able to find. All her posts say "deleted by creator"
Her posts were incredible, not just here but also in the pagan comm. Literally keeping it alive by herself.
What happened to Chamomile and where does it say that we can't post outside the vegan com?
I see that she nuked all her comments just now.
edit: Here's the "you can't post outside the vegan com" post, and it doesn't look very good for us, yeah.
there may never be a time where we won't be accused of trying to restart the struggle session
TC69 is in a tough spot, this is a shitshow, I read it more as a cooloff strategy then an attempted silencing of vegans
Anyone in contact with them? I’d love them (especially Chamomile) to join my Discord server @https://discord.gg/eKrJ2aPD
Please if anyone can contact Chamomile - I’d love to do events with her.
