Agree, 100%. I was using violence and mortality too ambiguously. The deaths are not comparable. But to be very callous, work camps and starvation doesn’t have violence in the same way. I went very very out of my way to drop this, but a veteran who was intimately acquainted with both said “the trenches were just as bad as Treblinka”. I am referring to work/POW camps. I should have been clear. The Holocaust is... just a given in my opinion. Like, nothing can compare. Also the 50,000 German civilians who committed suicide en masse kinda falls off the radar when getting nitty gritty. You hit the nail on the head though concerning clear non-combatants. The Second War was elevated mechanized warfare brought to every street corner. Thanks for helping me hash this out. :sicko-instapot: