Just because it feels good, doesn't mean it works or is ethical. I hate plenty of people, doesn't mean they should be slaves. Shoot them if they are like Bush, otherwise integrate them. Things will sort themselves out over time.
Yeah a lot were but most. Like in hundreds of throusands. You know Gulags were just prisons. Are you saying that (especially after ww2) the majority of prisoners in the USSR were innocent. Thats a wild take
People got sent to them for stealing from their employers
What employers? You think there were actual physical people ownining means of productions or buisnesses employing people in the USSR ? (yeah there were some cause there was a black market) but that mode of production was a small minority
What employers? You think there were actual physical people ownining means of productions or buisnesses employing people in the USSR ? (yeah there were some cause there was a black market) but that mode of production was a small minority
Markets were not abolished under the USSR, read Wolff.
I also did not argue innocence, I argued unjustness. I'm not gonna debate you if your first instinct is to misconstrue my point.
The USSR had a kind of commodity-production and had wage labor but only post-Stalin there were pseudo market-type reforms i.e they had to take loans from the state, have emploeyr relationships, firms that pay interest, had to be profitable and there even was a type of psuedo competition between the state enterprises, (but at the same time they had to follow the plan set by the state.). Under Stalin markets in any capitalist sense were supressed (why black market structures emerged) and capital goods were mostly allocated based on their use-values rather than their exchange values, meaning that capital goods were mostly not treated like commodities.
Also i havent read Wolff on the issue, sorry that a demsoc marxist that stans co-ops as a transitionary system wasnt in my top list to read about how the economy worked in the USSR
You should get a time machine and go to 1951 USSR. Absolutely destroyed infastructure wise from the worse genocidal war in history, lost tens of millions of its lanor force, completely depleted on so many levels and with prisons full on nazi collaborators and see how the brilliant idea of not using forced labour from them would fare . Also people in Gulags were actualy paid . CIA documents about Gulags attest to that
People get all mad about AOC not calling border camps concentration camps, and then refuse to call gulags slave camps.
if you cant distinguish penal labour you need new analytic categories
There is no evidence that slave labor works, and it disgusts me that you would be OK with it.
deleted by creator
Just because it feels good, doesn't mean it works or is ethical. I hate plenty of people, doesn't mean they should be slaves. Shoot them if they are like Bush, otherwise integrate them. Things will sort themselves out over time.
deleted by creator
Yes.
deleted by creator
Not really, but ok.
deleted by creator
Most people were in gulags unjustly. People got sent to them for stealing from their employers, really petty shit.
Source ?
Yeah a lot were but most. Like in hundreds of throusands. You know Gulags were just prisons. Are you saying that (especially after ww2) the majority of prisoners in the USSR were innocent. Thats a wild take
What employers? You think there were actual physical people ownining means of productions or buisnesses employing people in the USSR ? (yeah there were some cause there was a black market) but that mode of production was a small minority
Markets were not abolished under the USSR, read Wolff.
I also did not argue innocence, I argued unjustness. I'm not gonna debate you if your first instinct is to misconstrue my point.
The USSR had a kind of commodity-production and had wage labor but only post-Stalin there were pseudo market-type reforms i.e they had to take loans from the state, have emploeyr relationships, firms that pay interest, had to be profitable and there even was a type of psuedo competition between the state enterprises, (but at the same time they had to follow the plan set by the state.). Under Stalin markets in any capitalist sense were supressed (why black market structures emerged) and capital goods were mostly allocated based on their use-values rather than their exchange values, meaning that capital goods were mostly not treated like commodities.
Also i havent read Wolff on the issue, sorry that a demsoc marxist that stans co-ops as a transitionary system wasnt in my top list to read about how the economy worked in the USSR
Removed by mod
capital s slavery, no citation, failing to elaborate categories. stop with the debate nerd trickery bullshit
deleted by creator
I really should re-phrase that, my bad.
You should get a time machine and go to 1951 USSR. Absolutely destroyed infastructure wise from the worse genocidal war in history, lost tens of millions of its lanor force, completely depleted on so many levels and with prisons full on nazi collaborators and see how the brilliant idea of not using forced labour from them would fare . Also people in Gulags were actualy paid . CIA documents about Gulags attest to that
er
:this: