Or perhaps chapo style contrarianism is really just hipster socialist white privilege.
No, this is a fair point. There were many within the ranks who aided and abetted and there has to be a reckoning with that. Still though, many of the insurrectionists fought through police lines and it was quite apparent that they (the insurrectionists) were a hostile force.
It was a physically impossible plan that failed miserably at the first hurdle
This is irrelevant. They still had a plan. It failed. Hence it was a failed autogolpe. History is littered with failed seizures of power, and they are often followed up with successful seizures of power if not properly addressed.
and there’s absolutely no valuable utility in portraying members of organs responsible for abetting and enforcing far-right nationalism and capitalist hegemony as heroically preventing a fascist coup.
Even within your own language you use the term fascist coup. That should be a tell. You can be opposed to fascism and also be opposed to the policing
Having a hard time taking you seriously as a person after reveling in calling me, a (half) black person, a ‘white kid’ and claiming you could ‘smell my whiteness’ ....
Look, I have no idea what you look like, and I don't really care. All I know is that you seem to be downplaying the threat of white-nationalist violence and equating it with meaningless temper tantrums for some reason. Fine. Whatever. You can downplay it if you want, but I'm not about to make that mistake.
Where’s all your posts bringing attention to the underreported lynchings of black men in the wake of the George Floyd protests? Or the executions of demonstrators after Ferguson? Or do all the theatrics only come out to lament the ‘threat’ posed to the imperialist superpower and it’s government?
Seriously, dude? Is your knock on me that I don't post enough? Is my posting volume not up to your standards? Have I not logged enough posts to be taken seriously? My very first response that set off this entire shit-show chain of events I acknowledge and oppose how policing is a form of enforcing the interests of capital and white supremacy. But I guess I'm sorry if I don't have chapo receipts from events that happened before this website was even online.
Once again, there was no element of even an attempt to tangibly seize control of any lever of power whatsoever. It isn’t a videogame or a movie where occupying a building grants you control over a country of over three hundred million people.
Their objective was to force legislators to overrule the counting of the vote . They wanted to force Pence to ignore the votes by threatening to execute him. It may not have been a good plan, but it was a plan. The hard-right does not need the same level of strategic planning to hold on to power as the left needs to seize power. They don't need to seize airwaves or infrastructure because they were simply attempting to hold on to power. This is the key difference between a traditional coup and an autogolpe
Imagine being this much of a racist prick, lmao.
I'm hispanic, but whatever. I'm not the one minimizing the very real and imminent threat of white-supremacist violence that is mainstreaming into American consciousness.
You think AOC and Ilhan are ‘darlings of the left’ and your account history is full of liberal apologism.
They are darlings of the left that is still interested in participating in electoral politics. You're on a message board of a podcast that went hard in the paint for Bernie...which, last time I checked, was participating in electoral politics.
So, uhh....having a hard time hearing your criticisms of revolutionary action and taking it seriously, especially when that criticism involves downplaying the threat of (dis)organized right-wing violence.
And my post history is not liberal apologia...in fact, the only time I ever come around these boards anymore is when I am concerned about the fascist apologia that is radiating from members who claim to be left who want to hand-wave away growing fascist violence.
The true right is finally resting it’s head in America and some people on this forum continue to only want to shit-post about liberals, Jesus christ
This is one of the primary reasons why I don't even bother coming here anymore. Some of the people in this board still think it's the Obama years, which requires them to completely ignore the rising tide of rightwing thought that has swept the country
That you believe what was essentially a glorified temper tantrum — and yes, a temper tantrum
Just gonna go ahead and downplay the threat of fascist violence in the name of white supremacy. Probably because you're a white kid yourself.
A coup d’etat is an seizure of power
You don't know what an autogolpe is. You need to look that shit up. One branch of government sent a violent mob of off-duty cops and militarized sympathizers to overthrow another branch of government.
That's not a temper-tantrum.
The narrative of ‘WE ALMOST LITERALLY HAD A FASCIST DICTATORSHIP’ is useful for liberals like you, because it permits you to frame a utterly heinous institution that is responsible for a multitude of actual fascist coups that have killed millions of people across the world as a sort of victim and imply we should have gratitude for it’s continued existence
I can fucking hear your whiteness from here. If you are okay with a liberal institution falling into avowed fascists hands, then I genuinely question your solidarity with the communities you claim to be in alliance with. I am perfectly capable of critiquing the liberal state while also not wanting to see it seized by a burgeoning fascist movement. Apparently that's too heavy a lift for you, though
You have irony-poisoned yourself stupid. They seized the capitol by force. People died. They weren't invited in. Just because they were stupid about it and couldn't execute a longer plan doesn't mean their immediate objective of taking the building failed. Ignore that if you want but it's what happened.
This is a much better and more nuanced take than the OP that could have engendered some decent discussion. The fact that there were sympathizers within the unit and that the response was deliberately undercut should be investigated, but it won't happen.
The cops at the front of the door abandoned their posts. They were not going to stop her because they abdicated their duty....hence why they were BEHIND her and not in front of her.
I'm not caping for a cop. I'm just saying it's probably a good thing that armed fascists didn't execute members of the government in order to install by force a 2nd Trump term.
You, on the other hand, are caping for a fascist who was storming the capitol trying to assassinate the entire line of succession while wearing a literal CAPE.
If you really advocate for killing people who are unarmed and pose no threat then fuck off
THEY POSED A FUCKING THREAT YOU GODDAMN IMBECILE.
What, you think they wanted to sit down for a cup of tea? They wanted to assassinate legislators.
DO NOT, under any circumstance, try to equate armed fascists with minority communities who are routinely harassed and brutalized by police. Not even close to the same thing and if you can't make that distinction then I should stop talking to you because you are baby-brained moron.
They DID capture the capitol. No, some small-business shitheads didn't set up a provisional government.
But you are on some serious shit if you think we should just ignore what happened as if it won't happen again. Failed coups when not properly addressed often turn into successful coups. Ignore that at your own peril
if 1/3 of the government is assassinated, then you effectively have a power-vacuum. Whether or not they held the building like the fucking Alamo is irrelevant. We would have been thrown into a crisis
no. there is a delineation that must be made between bourgeois democracy and fascism. This distinction is critical to understand when discussing political epochs
, they got the peaceful transfer of power now,
no they didn't. That phrase has to mean something. The autogolpe attempt, by definition, renders the transfer of power hostile, not peaceful
Ahh...just gonna play down the entire thing. Not even going to entertain the possibility that they could have murdered every progressive congressperson and kneecapped what little left representation we have?
I don't see how. I think Trump SHOULD be convicted and the senators and congresspeople who aided and abetted should be removed from office. This is a historic opportunity to purge congress of belligerent actors who are hostile to democratic self governance and I think it's the Democratic Party would be whiffing on a major opportunity to consolidate power by molly-whopping the republicans into submission.
The fact that I don't think they'll seize that opportunity doesn't really change my desire to see them do it. Not sure how else I could "participate" beyond my role as a citizen.
There is a disturbing trend on this board to hand-wave away fascist violence because of how buffoonish it often is and because it is often directed at a liberalism that is often hostile to leftism. But that is a dangerous reflex, and I'm not sure if the people engaging in that strand of thinking are even aware of the bedfellows they are attracting.
but since we are talking more seriously now, I think it bears reflecting whether getting caught up in the electoral/symbolic chess game the government has constructed here is beneficial to people of our political persuasion.
If I have to choose between upholding electoralism or ceding ground to fascists who are willing to seize power by force to permanently install minority rule, i'm picking electoralism. Every time.
have YOU seen the video of it? She was breaching the last line of defense before getting to legislators. What....pray tell, do you think she was going to do if she were not stopped?
God damn, quit bending over backwards to infantalize armed fascists storming the capitol. She was not selling loose cigarettes. She was not trying to enter her car. She was trying to overthrow the governement.
If you try to overthrow the government, you should expect one of two outcomes:
She died, and I don't feel bad for her. Neither should you. If you sympathize with a dead fascist then I really have to question your leanings.
fair enough. still a problem, though.