Work performed based on the requirement to do so in order to not die -- the need for money for food and shelter -- is coercive (and a core belief of socialism).
I know you're aware that it's silly to pose the equal situation where you and your partner have near equal incomes... But you should be aware that this very topic was a major aspect of first wave feminism and continues to be a major talking point against trad-relationship types who think a woman should not work.
I haven't had a paycheck on over a year from a job.
I'm currently selling blood plasma to be able to pay some of the bills. My wife's farm in come is now the majority of our income. She's kinda been wanting me to be home more to help her do farm stuff and take over doing domestic chores. Sooo.. technically, its my wife who wants me to not work.
So, I don't think its silly to apply the logic from the scenario described earlier in this comment thread to other scenarios to see if the outcome makes sense or not. Income is not guaranteed between partners through their lives. I'd imagine that you don't dump your spouse as soon as one of your incomes increases or decreases so that there isn't parity or when one spouse suddenly finds themselves in a situation of financial dependence.
Also, kudos for low key framing my comment as being anti-feminist. slow claps
I still do not see how a relationship that began equally that goes through fluctuations is in any way comparable to the issues in the porn industry.
I didn't frame it as anti-feminist. It was anti-feminist. The porn industry is an indefensible industry filled with rape. Any defence of it in favour of defending the individualist choice of the actors and actresses to perform the work instead of from the perspective of liberating them is anti-feminist.
Work performed based on the requirement to do so in order to not die – the need for money for food and shelter – is coercive (and a core belief of socialism).
Sex work is therefore rape.
You're logic is fine, i just don't find the conclusion as compelling as you do.
Porn is fine, I've been fantasizing about people for as long as I've had tingly underpants feelings. That's me, making porn for myself by myself. I've traded dirty pictures and stories with other people, that's porn between people who were consenting, I don't view that rape.
I agree, that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. The Porn Industry, is an industry. And as such, we will be able to find people who are overtly hurt and people who might be less overtly hurt, and people who aren't hurt or people being hurt that don't realize they are being hurt. So, I agree that there are victims found within the Porn Industry.
I don't think that anybody working within the confines of this system, who works in porn, its automatically involved in rape. I want to say that I am tracking where you're going and what you're arguing. But the word rape, and the crimes it describes means something to me other than what happens when you're just trying to pay bills. I'm not a legal scholar so I doubt I can find some silver arrow definition to make my point but I hope that I can at least let you know where my brain is at even if you don't agree.
Reading the above quote of your logic, leads the conclusion. 1) Rape can mean the horrible abuse of somebody else's bodily autonomy by others as well as well as a voluntary act between people within a larger system that is naturally exploitative.
Scenario, my wife and I need some money because jobs that work with what my spouse wants me to be doing are hard to come by. So we decide to make some videos and see if anybody will give us some Only Fans cash from it. Given we live in a capitalism, and there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. By the logic from the above quote from the original comment that I started replying to. Did my wife and just commit an act of rape?
I would say no, we might not have liked having to do porn instead of just being farmers to pay the bills, but just because we live within a capitalism I cannot justify labeling what we did as rape. I shouldn't have to make the this statement, but rape can occur within the Porn Industry, this is not up for debate.
In the Porn Industry, the need to make money is the coercive part, not the doing sex stuff for money. Coercion just for sex, is absolutely rape.
We don't have to agree, I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm pretty sure I get what you're trying to say. Also, I appreciate the back and forth and don't want you to think this comment thread was just me being needlessly shitty.
Porn is good. Sex work is good. Worker exploitation is bad.
Sex under coercion is rape.
Work performed based on the requirement to do so in order to not die -- the need for money for food and shelter -- is coercive (and a core belief of socialism).
Sex work is therefore rape.
hmm.. I guess that's why the police arrest sex workers, because they are causing rapes. Gotcha
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So then... rape is not that bad?
Or like, my wife and I take turns raping each other as our incomes switch between her or myself having more money to pay bills?
I know you're aware that it's silly to pose the equal situation where you and your partner have near equal incomes... But you should be aware that this very topic was a major aspect of first wave feminism and continues to be a major talking point against trad-relationship types who think a woman should not work.
I haven't had a paycheck on over a year from a job.
I'm currently selling blood plasma to be able to pay some of the bills. My wife's farm in come is now the majority of our income. She's kinda been wanting me to be home more to help her do farm stuff and take over doing domestic chores. Sooo.. technically, its my wife who wants me to not work.
So, I don't think its silly to apply the logic from the scenario described earlier in this comment thread to other scenarios to see if the outcome makes sense or not. Income is not guaranteed between partners through their lives. I'd imagine that you don't dump your spouse as soon as one of your incomes increases or decreases so that there isn't parity or when one spouse suddenly finds themselves in a situation of financial dependence.
Also, kudos for low key framing my comment as being anti-feminist. slow claps
I still do not see how a relationship that began equally that goes through fluctuations is in any way comparable to the issues in the porn industry.
I didn't frame it as anti-feminist. It was anti-feminist. The porn industry is an indefensible industry filled with rape. Any defence of it in favour of defending the individualist choice of the actors and actresses to perform the work instead of from the perspective of liberating them is anti-feminist.
You're logic is fine, i just don't find the conclusion as compelling as you do.
Porn is fine, I've been fantasizing about people for as long as I've had tingly underpants feelings. That's me, making porn for myself by myself. I've traded dirty pictures and stories with other people, that's porn between people who were consenting, I don't view that rape.
I agree, that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. The Porn Industry, is an industry. And as such, we will be able to find people who are overtly hurt and people who might be less overtly hurt, and people who aren't hurt or people being hurt that don't realize they are being hurt. So, I agree that there are victims found within the Porn Industry.
I don't think that anybody working within the confines of this system, who works in porn, its automatically involved in rape. I want to say that I am tracking where you're going and what you're arguing. But the word rape, and the crimes it describes means something to me other than what happens when you're just trying to pay bills. I'm not a legal scholar so I doubt I can find some silver arrow definition to make my point but I hope that I can at least let you know where my brain is at even if you don't agree.
Reading the above quote of your logic, leads the conclusion. 1) Rape can mean the horrible abuse of somebody else's bodily autonomy by others as well as well as a voluntary act between people within a larger system that is naturally exploitative.
Scenario, my wife and I need some money because jobs that work with what my spouse wants me to be doing are hard to come by. So we decide to make some videos and see if anybody will give us some Only Fans cash from it. Given we live in a capitalism, and there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. By the logic from the above quote from the original comment that I started replying to. Did my wife and just commit an act of rape?
I would say no, we might not have liked having to do porn instead of just being farmers to pay the bills, but just because we live within a capitalism I cannot justify labeling what we did as rape. I shouldn't have to make the this statement, but rape can occur within the Porn Industry, this is not up for debate.
In the Porn Industry, the need to make money is the coercive part, not the doing sex stuff for money. Coercion just for sex, is absolutely rape.
We don't have to agree, I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm pretty sure I get what you're trying to say. Also, I appreciate the back and forth and don't want you to think this comment thread was just me being needlessly shitty.