Ok, so it looks like stormfront is a website that promotes white pride. It sounds like there might have been a subreddit at some point based on that stormfront image.
I'm using non-reddit links because I don't want to direct traffic to reddit.
Can you help me find a source that shows, stormfront, a white pride website, influenced the 196 rule please? This seems like an important point to learn more about. I've been googling, but I haven't found any connection yet.
196 had extreme crossover with the vaush sub, I think mods too? Either way I got banned for shittalking NATO there over 3 years ago and haven't bothered to check in since.
I didn't participate in 196 when I was on Reddit. And I've just now learned about Vaush. For what it's worth, I haven't seen him mentioned on this 196.
Although I'm pro-NATO. I've no way to know how representative that stance is of the general user base of this instance. But I'm of the opinion that it's a common position.
I really don't understand how someone can come the conclusion that NATO is a good thing? :/ They've carried out some absolutely awful military operations that have taken many lives. They are not, in any way, a "defensive alliance" and have never acted like one. Like, the bare minimum that I ask is "Russia and NATO are both bad" (and thats not even wrong, its just said in bad faith sometimes). But outright saying NATO is good? :/
The observed baseline for libs on reddit is defending as if it's a left wing position because the republicans are 'worse', with lots of unexamined western chauvinism piled on top, and hostile misogyny if you push back on it.
Obama was president when NATO returned the slave trade to Libya- to quote his secretary of state Hillary Clinton: "we came, we saw, he died". I'm sure you have all sorts of state-approved positions on Americas state enemies, but that's the historical reality you're whitewashing.
I'll admit my knowledge on US involvement in Libya is lacking. I was a junior in high school at the time and I don't remember hearing much about it. I'll have to read up on it if I'm going to debate it with you. At a glance, it looks Obama would agree with you. Reestablishing the slave trade in Libya doesn't seem to be the outcome he was hoping for. edit: typo
"Trans friendly" is a weird way to say creepy chasers, the amount of overt sexualisation and objectification of trans people from non-trans people there is horrendous.
You're reading too hard into the reddit=stormfront thing. It's just a common leftist refrain off-reddit because 90% of the site is pro-nato white supremacy and nationalism even if a handful of communities might be slightly less bad.
most of the posts there make my skin crawl. im basically a boomer at this point in the trans community (10+ years transitioned), younger trans people really need to learn what fake allies look like. just because theyre nice/sexualize you doesnt mean they actually support you. i know when the world hates your guts the bar is low, but you need to make that bar high for your own good.
It's a joke to dunk on Reddit, it's become part of our parlance so we tend to drop it pretty casually. I can see how it comes across as accusatory here, but I think the user probably didn't mean anything by it.
And /r/196 is a leftist meme posting subreddit that is trans friendly.
Back when i still visited reddit, i got bullied pretty hard by them for pointing out that it's latently transphobic, assimilationist and toxic to shit on the way r/traaaaaaaa was inclusive of trans catgirl culture. They had an entire thread on how the memes on r/traaaaaaa were cringe and unfunny and it was full of latent bigottry like that. Made them sound like a bunch of chuds and truscums. r/196 also has a not insubstantial amount of chasers. Fetishizing us and talking about your favorite trans porn while dismissing the opinions of trans women as cringe isn't trans friendly, it is objectifying and shitty and r/196 can go fuck itself.
heavy-handed moderation to keep it that way is a good idea. if someone engages in soft transphobia/chaser shit, warn and ban -- don't leave room for debates about how much trans positivity is too much.
I hope i can take your word for that, it's generally what i'd expect of a place called zone, too. I'm just voicing my own experiences with the reddit sub.
I honestly know very little about Stormfront, beyond what I've googled. I don't support white pride groups. I have seen people referencing it on Lemmy though.
I won't contest that racism and bigotry existed on reddit. It definitely did. I also experienced and saw kindness and acceptance. Saying Reddit in its entirety is racist is really no different that saying everyone is racist. And not everyone and not everyone on reddit is racist.
They said elsewhere that they're autistic. The need to be exact and truthful when people generalize something like a community is something i identify with. Its why I dont really love the stormfront joke myself, just go along with it for community peace. This person to me is clearly well intentioned and is an example of the dunk impulse going too far because I think they're trying to do right.
ETA: Actually I got them mixed up with another user they never said they were autistic. But I still think they are well intentioned.
It goes without saying all lives matter. It needs to be said that Black Lives Matter. I am aware racism exists on reddit. I'd love to see a survey or study that indicates a majority of people are racist on reddit.
I'm not convinced that calling reddit predominantly racist is based on actual sympathy for people of color. There is a competing reason I can think of why someone would want to discredit reddit however. They tended to moderate against authoritarian communists, people who are notorious for their support of governments that committed genocides against minorities.
It is true that there are plenty of people who use reddit that are not racist (setting aside the idea that everyone who lives in a racist society, which we in the west do, has at least some internalized racism). Some people on reddit even actively fight against it, to their credit. That said, as a platform, both in terms of the people who run and administrate it, as well as the larger majority mass of users, definitely tends towards racism. This can be seen in all kinds of ways, from admins always siding with of racists over bipoc to the frothing-at-the-mouth hatred of the "orcish hordes" that dominates in every popular subreddit (and the silencing of those who offer even the mildest criticism of it), to the understandable yet very telling rabid defense of the privilege so many of them insist they earned when it is nothing more than old fashioned white privilege. You seem to agree that reddit is bad for its corporatist bullshit and its laser focus on profit at the expense of people. We agree. But that alone is inherently systemically racist for sociological reasons that I'm assuming you're aware of, given some of your other comments. For all these reasons, it is hardly an overreaction or unfair to refer to reddit as "a racist website."
As for "authoritarian" communists, all I'll say here is that I hope you can learn to seriously, genuinely question a lot of what you have learned from what amounts to an ocean of propaganda deliberately spread for decades (even over a century) to demonize any successful socialist revolution. I'd encourage you to ask some of us "tankies" in good faith about some of that propaganda in other appropriate threads.
I definitely did see popular subreddits that would display racial biases to black people. They would bad mouth a black person doing something in a clip and then the next day defend a white person doing similar things. It didn't happen that way every time, but it did seem like it happened that way more often than not. Also, there does seem to be a valid argument in that systemic racism asserts itself in instances of corporate greed like we've seen from reddit. In the sense it's probably white people who are going to benefit from the enshitification.
At the very least I'm hoping we can have good faith discussions about progressive topics. IRL I typically talk to people more conservative me, so it is interesting to talk to someone coming from a different end of the political spectrum.
it's about the platform and the majority membership, not a judgment of every community that exists there. there are quite obviously cool corners on reddit, but the platform as a whole defends bigotry as free speech, at an admin level.
It does seem like the admin level is an issue when it comes to reddit and racism. This is easier to observe as there are fewer admins than users. I do want to see some kind of data to be convinced it is the majority of people on reddit. I only have my personal experience to go on. I remember fondly how conservatives bemoaned that reddit was dominated by liberals. So from my personal experience the racists were the minority. I could be wrong though, because I don't have political census data on redditors.
I remember fondly how conservatives bemoaned that reddit was dominated by liberals.
Tories have also complained since the beginning of time about how the BBC has a supposed leftwing bias, and no amount of slandering leftists by the BBC has dissuaded them of that. Conservatives just want to feel persecuted.
I won't contest that racism and bigotry existed on reddit. It definitely did. I also experienced and saw kindness and acceptance. Saying Reddit in its entirety is racist is really no different that saying everyone is racist. And not everyone and not everyone on reddit is racist.
reddit is full to the brim liberals and liberals are at best fascist enablers, at worst - especially when foreign politics are involved - they are fash-lite, consciously or otherwise
Ok, so it looks like stormfront is a website that promotes white pride. It sounds like there might have been a subreddit at some point based on that stormfront image.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stormfront
And /r/196 is a leftist meme posting subreddit that is trans friendly.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=r%2F196
I'm using non-reddit links because I don't want to direct traffic to reddit.
Can you help me find a source that shows, stormfront, a white pride website, influenced the 196 rule please? This seems like an important point to learn more about. I've been googling, but I haven't found any connection yet.
Its a hexbear joke to call reddit stormfront
It's a long running hexbear joke to compare Reddit to stormfront given how racist and white it is
That's why the emoji booty used is called :reddit-logo :
I see, thanks.
The original sub was banned from Reddit for repeatedly saying a person who killed slave owners did nothing wrong, as some additional context
Who was the person who killed salve owners? I honestly do not know the history of the original sub.
John Brown
196 was creepy and chaser-y about trans folks?
Also the
emoji is just making fun of how openly or (poorly) covertly white supremacist reddit is in general.
196 kind of was chasery at first but got less chasery as time passed
Ah, gotcha
Not from what I've heard. edit:spacing
The vaush meme subreddit creeped me out.
What was that subreddit about? =/
196 had extreme crossover with the vaush sub, I think mods too? Either way I got banned for shittalking NATO there over 3 years ago and haven't bothered to check in since.
Are you talking about this guy?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/vaush
I didn't participate in 196 when I was on Reddit. And I've just now learned about Vaush. For what it's worth, I haven't seen him mentioned on this 196.
Although I'm pro-NATO. I've no way to know how representative that stance is of the general user base of this instance. But I'm of the opinion that it's a common position.
I really don't understand how someone can come the conclusion that NATO is a good thing? :/ They've carried out some absolutely awful military operations that have taken many lives. They are not, in any way, a "defensive alliance" and have never acted like one. Like, the bare minimum that I ask is "Russia and NATO are both bad" (and thats not even wrong, its just said in bad faith sometimes). But outright saying NATO is good? :/
The West has the right to defend itself. As does everyone.
NATO has intervened to stop genocide.
NATO is in fact a defensive alliance. Here is article 5.
The observed baseline for libs on reddit is defending
as if it's a left wing position because the republicans are 'worse', with lots of unexamined western chauvinism piled on top, and hostile 
misogyny if you push back on it.
Obama was president when NATO returned the slave trade to Libya- to quote his secretary of state Hillary Clinton: "we came, we saw, he died". I'm sure you have all sorts of state-approved positions on Americas state enemies, but that's the historical reality you're whitewashing.
I'll admit my knowledge on US involvement in Libya is lacking. I was a junior in high school at the time and I don't remember hearing much about it. I'll have to read up on it if I'm going to debate it with you. At a glance, it looks Obama would agree with you. Reestablishing the slave trade in Libya doesn't seem to be the outcome he was hoping for. edit: typo
https://www.newsweek.com/obama-responsible-libyan-slave-trade-730875
Redditor trying to decipher the bit:
I think you should be more judicious about who you're dunking on tbh. This person seems well intentioned enough.
ETA: I take this back.
Lol
when the precog hits
i just felt like bein mean and i got lucky. but my guess was informed by the fact that they're a redditor.
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"Trans friendly" is a weird way to say creepy chasers, the amount of overt sexualisation and objectification of trans people from non-trans people there is horrendous.
You're reading too hard into the reddit=stormfront thing. It's just a common leftist refrain off-reddit because 90% of the site is pro-nato white supremacy and nationalism even if a handful of communities might be slightly less bad.
most of the posts there make my skin crawl. im basically a boomer at this point in the trans community (10+ years transitioned), younger trans people really need to learn what fake allies look like. just because theyre nice/sexualize you doesnt mean they actually support you. i know when the world hates your guts the bar is low, but you need to make that bar high for your own good.
r/196 kinda gives me Vaush vibes in that way (and also in the radlibbiness ofc)
It's a joke to dunk on Reddit, it's become part of our parlance so we tend to drop it pretty casually. I can see how it comes across as accusatory here, but I think the user probably didn't mean anything by it.
That seems to be the case. Other people are indicating it was joke and not even one directed at on 196. It's certainly new to me anyway.
its because there used to be a stormfront subreddit on reddit for like 10 years or something before it got banned, and that was their logo.
Back when i still visited reddit, i got bullied pretty hard by them for pointing out that it's latently transphobic, assimilationist and toxic to shit on the way r/traaaaaaaa was inclusive of trans catgirl culture. They had an entire thread on how the memes on r/traaaaaaa were cringe and unfunny and it was full of latent bigottry like that. Made them sound like a bunch of chuds and truscums. r/196 also has a not insubstantial amount of chasers. Fetishizing us and talking about your favorite trans porn while dismissing the opinions of trans women as cringe isn't trans friendly, it is objectifying and shitty and r/196 can go fuck itself.
I only know about r/196 what I've read about it from other sources. You'll be happy to know we don't do that here. This is a trans friendly space.
heavy-handed moderation to keep it that way is a good idea. if someone engages in soft transphobia/chaser shit, warn and ban -- don't leave room for debates about how much trans positivity is too much.
I hope i can take your word for that, it's generally what i'd expect of a place called
zone, too. I'm just voicing my own experiences with the reddit sub.
I think stormfront the user, Stormfront the right wing website, and Stormfront the Apple store are all 3 seperate entities.
I think you got them mixed up. I hope you mixed them up and they aren't somehow connected anyway.
I honestly know very little about Stormfront, beyond what I've googled. I don't support white pride groups. I have seen people referencing it on Lemmy though.
it's a joke about reddit's tendency towards racism and other bigotry, not the literal stormfront website.
I won't contest that racism and bigotry existed on reddit. It definitely did. I also experienced and saw kindness and acceptance. Saying Reddit in its entirety is racist is really no different that saying everyone is racist. And not everyone and not everyone on reddit is racist.
deleted by creator
Who was the guy you celebrated?
deleted by creator
yeah its a joke making fun of a large portion of reddit
you're giving real "all lives matter" vibes with this response
They said elsewhere that they're autistic. The need to be exact and truthful when people generalize something like a community is something i identify with. Its why I dont really love the stormfront joke myself, just go along with it for community peace. This person to me is clearly well intentioned and is an example of the dunk impulse going too far because I think they're trying to do right.
ETA: Actually I got them mixed up with another user they never said they were autistic. But I still think they are well intentioned.
Their further response to me tells me they aren't well intentioned.
Ah damn, I misplaced my faith.
It goes without saying all lives matter. It needs to be said that Black Lives Matter. I am aware racism exists on reddit. I'd love to see a survey or study that indicates a majority of people are racist on reddit.
I'm not convinced that calling reddit predominantly racist is based on actual sympathy for people of color. There is a competing reason I can think of why someone would want to discredit reddit however. They tended to moderate against authoritarian communists, people who are notorious for their support of governments that committed genocides against minorities.
Damn, I really had faith you were well intentioned. I'm disappointed.
Honestly I don't even know why you're here if you're so happy with Reddit's moderation policies.
We moderate tankys here too. Welcome to 196.
I'm mad at the corporate take over of reddit. The shitification if you will. edit:typo
It is true that there are plenty of people who use reddit that are not racist (setting aside the idea that everyone who lives in a racist society, which we in the west do, has at least some internalized racism). Some people on reddit even actively fight against it, to their credit. That said, as a platform, both in terms of the people who run and administrate it, as well as the larger majority mass of users, definitely tends towards racism. This can be seen in all kinds of ways, from admins always siding with
of racists over bipoc to the frothing-at-the-mouth hatred of the "orcish hordes" that dominates in every popular subreddit (and the silencing of those who offer even the mildest criticism of it), to the understandable yet very telling rabid defense of the privilege so many of them insist they earned when it is nothing more than old fashioned white privilege. You seem to agree that reddit is bad for its corporatist bullshit and its laser focus on profit at the expense of people. We agree. But that alone is inherently systemically racist for sociological reasons that I'm assuming you're aware of, given some of your other comments. For all these reasons, it is hardly an overreaction or unfair to refer to reddit as "a racist website."
As for "authoritarian" communists, all I'll say here is that I hope you can learn to seriously, genuinely question a lot of what you have learned from what amounts to an ocean of propaganda deliberately spread for decades (even over a century) to demonize any successful socialist revolution. I'd encourage you to ask some of us "tankies" in good faith about some of that propaganda in other appropriate threads.
I definitely did see popular subreddits that would display racial biases to black people. They would bad mouth a black person doing something in a clip and then the next day defend a white person doing similar things. It didn't happen that way every time, but it did seem like it happened that way more often than not. Also, there does seem to be a valid argument in that systemic racism asserts itself in instances of corporate greed like we've seen from reddit. In the sense it's probably white people who are going to benefit from the enshitification.
At the very least I'm hoping we can have good faith discussions about progressive topics. IRL I typically talk to people more conservative me, so it is interesting to talk to someone coming from a different end of the political spectrum.
it's about the platform and the majority membership, not a judgment of every community that exists there. there are quite obviously cool corners on reddit, but the platform as a whole defends bigotry as free speech, at an admin level.
It does seem like the admin level is an issue when it comes to reddit and racism. This is easier to observe as there are fewer admins than users. I do want to see some kind of data to be convinced it is the majority of people on reddit. I only have my personal experience to go on. I remember fondly how conservatives bemoaned that reddit was dominated by liberals. So from my personal experience the racists were the minority. I could be wrong though, because I don't have political census data on redditors.
Tories have also complained since the beginning of time about how the BBC has a supposed leftwing bias, and no amount of slandering leftists by the BBC has dissuaded them of that. Conservatives just want to feel persecuted.
They do have a persecution complex, I'll give you that. =D
reddit is full to the brim liberals and liberals are at best fascist enablers, at worst - especially when foreign politics are involved - they are fash-lite, consciously or otherwise
hence the stormfront joke