Has anyone else noticed how prevalent Hexbear posters have suddenly become? Maybe sometime last week I noticed nearly every political post had at least one long thread of Hexbear users that do nothing but repeat CCP talking points while waving anyway anything even remotely reliable as Western propaganda. That or getting all excited about trolled libs. The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Not to mention, their info on the Fediverse observer is either straight up wrong or there's some serious botting going on. According to that, the instance is less than a month old, yet somehow they already have one of the largest, most active userbases, along with far and away the most comments of any instance.
Seems to me like Lemmygrad on steroids. Considering we defederated from them, seems like a no-brainer to block Hexbear as well.
So glad this thread could become such a perfect microcosm of why we need to defederate.
Seems like you're missing a ton of nuance in manufacturing consent, and have turned from the frying pan into the fire in that sense.
Yes, Western media is biased towards corporations. This is most clearly seen in anything labeled "finance" or "money", but is pervasive.
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle. And they've never done anything like the Great Firewall.
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
And even if you're 100% on board with every word Marx has written, I don't understand how that leads one to defend modern day Russia and China.
The West absolutely has problems. And it's good and right to point those out and try to fix them. But to try to paint the East as the answer to stand against the West is dangerous and dumb.
The great firewall is for your own protection, just look at how you guys react to a small group of users with different opinions!
Are people stupid enough to believe this?
The real answer is it is, among other things, an economic tool
The alternative was having the big US techs invade china economically, along with the mass propaganda from capitalist entities (chief among them the US, always pursuing efforts to destabilize China) that would have followed
You don't speak to actual Chinese citizens often, do you ? basically all young people there have VPNs, and nobody cares. Like, at all
No, the truth is the CCP is a violently authoritarian government that needs to control what it's citizens think in order to stay in power.
No I'm pretty sure they do that by increasing their citizens quality of life. I know, it's a bizarre concept.
The US Is the most violent police state in the world, not that you actually give a shit
lol, the great firewall is protecting you right now from getting bodied by millions of CPC members
Lol, you're complaining about other people being propagandized while you say shit like this.
Do you think people don't have VPNs?
I mean, visit any third world country where there's no such thing as a "great firewall" and you'll find western services and corporations embedded in everything to do with technology. WhatsApp has basically replaced text messaging to the point where even banks use it in my country, twitter is basically a PSA and tech support tool, and Facebook is everywhere. This is terrible for sovereignty. Meanwhile China has developed their own stuff such as WeChat and Weibo. So they're not subject to relying on Zuckerberg and Musk for everything from texting to banking.
That's the main economic purpose the great firewall served, it allowed China to develop their own tech industry instead of relying on silicon valley dorks. Not everything is some evil authoritarian communist scheme to oppress everyone. Chinese citizens could just get a VPN if they wanted to find out anything cordoned off.
The US state has spent the last three-quarter century sending their intelligence and military forces all over the world to violently snuff out any movement that went against it percieved interests.
China did not do that.
So why are you focusing on China? Who is the real "authoritarian" government here?
Be more direct. Who are you even replying to?
I'm not replying to anyone, I'm posting this for other people who come along and might be susceptible to Hexbear propaganda.
Well thank god they have you to tell them... what exactly? What counter-movement do you stand for?
It might shock you but you aren't required to stand for an anti-establishment whatever and shove your opinions down other people's throats.
Capitalism in it's current form may be responsible for incredible suffering and truly horrific global environmental damage. That doesn't mean the concept itself is 100% wrong, that Communism is compatible with human nature, or that it's in humanities best interest to split of into a bunch of counter-movements.
You are ideologically incoherent.
And you're ignorant. Another great debate thanks Hexbear
🤝
Ngl I'm skeptical of hexbear primarily for the "Dunkin on libs" shit, but of this thread they did seem to be the only ones having a good faith debate.
So what i'm getting is, you'll never do anything to make it better and just roll with the material conditions like a boxing dummy on a swivel. You lash out at our approach to the system bc you have none of your own.
They won't just roll with it, awwwyissss thinks there's an immutable "human nature" and that communism is not "compatible" with it. They think communism is anti-human, while they do not judge the current system as anti-human: it's easy to see the little they would do of any political impact will only serve to keep the current barbarity going.
Time to check the ”human nature tho” box on my bingo card.
Why do you speak so confidently about subjects you clearly have spent almost exactly zero time investigating? There are over a hundred years of accumulated knowledge and study from a Marxist perspective on the nature and mechanics of capitalism (and that's basically what Marxism is). You say that [single observation] isn't proof that it's inherently bad? Well big fucking whoop. The conclusion comes from a LOT more than that.
Lmao, you did the meme.
You did the "muh human nature" meme.
Hilarious!
That was clearly a joke
The Great Firewall was to protect their own citizens from being data mined from foreign companies and propagandized by hostile state actors that want to put the Chinese in mines to extract resources for dirt cheap like they've done to many other nations in Africa, South America, and Asia
Notably also to make room in the domestic market for the domestic bourgeoisie to fill the roles Facebook, YT, etc. fill elsewhere, since those companies collaborate with the US.
Hexbear doesn't "defend modern day Russia". I'm sure there are some users who do purely from a position of believing a multipolar world is preferable to one dominated unilaterally by the US, but even in those users think Putin is a piece of shit.
There's a difference between understanding NATO's role in provoking the war in Ukraine, not calling Russians orcs or comparing Putin to Hitler and defending modern-day Russia.
How do you know that? Did the US government tell you?
USians are literally the most propagandized pop on the planet.
USians are the only dipshits who think their state will just do the right thing with zero pressure.
Imagine thinking the people living in a system where bribery and corruption have literally been legalized and (somehow) still believe is the least corrupt system on earth, have not been propagandized into a pulp of absolute impotence and servility.
Reality is calling
They can't even spell it right, of course they never took the initiative to question the massacre narrative
I'm always so paranoid about saying something wrong let alone spelling something wrong. It blows my mind when people just spout off without double checking themselves.
You know back in school years ago (the small amount I actually remember) I had a history teacher show us the tankman video and it just cut off with him standing there and my teacher said "the Chinese cut the film before it could leave the country" or something like that. Only more recently did I learn that was bullshit.
Good thing I had already figured most of the history classes were bullshit before that. Oh and having a school designed by someone who designs prisons really didn't help my motivation.
You should check out literally any declassified CIA document.
then you should try to do some more thinking. maybe even some reading
First of all, multiple western sources agree with us on Tiananmin Square
Second Iraq is definitly not the only time. Vietnam is another huge example. Literally every post-WWII military conflict has involved the press lying about it to manufacture consent. Some of the things are things you probably haven't realized you're being lied to about it yet though, so if I use them as examples it won't help. But still.
Manufacturing Consent wasn't just about the media being on the side of the corporations, its also about them being on the side of Western imperlialist motivations. And they will lie to you about "enemy countries" over, and over, and over again.
You think this because you don't see the misleading happening and believing the things the western sources tell you about the "bad countries".
Also Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq the first time and through the sanctions... You know, Ukraine... North Korea, the US government definitely tries to pull the wool over our eyes on that one. Venezuela, Cuba, on and on
Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered for no reason to accomplish nothing but to line the pockets of Raytheon shareholders. And you write it off as if it doesn't even matter.
No one, neither the politicians nor the journalists who knowingly lied to you faced any repercussions. Not only that, but in many cases, it's the same people in the same positions with no reason not to do it again.
Even if you ignore all the other times that the media has lied, how many people do you believe died at Tiananmen Square to think that the two are remotely comparable?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
CW: description of the events of it from Wikipedia, mention of: media suppression of a massacre, mass killing of civilians, r*pe, infanticide, pedophilia and mutilation, picture of the dead mutilated women and children under a sub spoiler warning
Between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by US soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.
photo of some of the victims
media suppression of the massacre and the (lack of) consequences for those responsible
Only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after US President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence.
...
On 4 April 1968, the information office of the 11th Brigade issued a press-release, Recent Operations in Pinkville, without reporting mass casualties among civilians. Subsequent criminal investigation found that, "Both individuals failed to report what they had seen, the reporter wrote a false and misleading account of the operation, and the photographer withheld and suppressed from proper authorities the photographic evidence of atrocities he had obtained."
...
The first reporting of the Mỹ Lai massacre appeared in the American media after Fort Benning issued a press release related to the charges pressed against Lieutenant William Calley. This was issued on 5 September 1969.[163]
Consequently, NBC aired on 10 September 1969 a segment in the Huntley-Brinkley Report which reported the killings of numerous civilians in South Vietnam. Following that, Ronald Ridenhour decided to disobey the Army's order to withhold the information from the media. He approached reporter Ben Cole of the Phoenix Republic, who chose not to handle the scoop. Charles Black from the Columbus Enquirer uncovered the story on his own but also decided to put it on hold. Two major national news press outlets—The New York Times and The Washington Post—received some tips with partial information but did not act on them.[164]
Ridenhour called Seymour Hersh on 22 October 1969. The freelance investigative journalist conducted an independent inquiry, and published to break the wall of silence that was surrounding the Mỹ Lai massacre. Hersh initially tried to sell the story to Life and Look magazines; both turned it down. Hersh went to the small, Washington-based Dispatch News Service, which sent it to fifty major American newspapers; thirty accepted it for publication.[165] New York Times reporter Henry Kamm investigated further and found several survivors of the Mỹ Lai massacre in South Vietnam. He estimated the number of civilians killed as 567.[166]
Next, Ben Cole published an article about Ronald Ridenhour, a helicopter gunner and an Army whistleblower, who was among the first who started to uncover the truth about the Mỹ Lai massacre. And Haeberle contacted Joseph Eszterhas of The Plain Dealer, which then published Haeberle's grisly images of the dead bodies of old men, women, and children on 20 November 1969.[44] Time Magazine's article on 28 November 1969 and in Life magazine on 5 December 1969, both of which included Haeberle's photos,[167] finally brought Mỹ Lai to the fore of the public debate about Vietnam War.[168]
Richard L. Strout, the Christian Science Monitor political commentator, wrote: "American press self-censorship thwarted Mr. Ridenhour's disclosures for a year. 'No one wanted to go into it', his agent said of telegrams sent to Life, Look, and Newsweek magazines outlining allegations...."[169]
Afterward, interviews and stories connected to the Mỹ Lai massacre started to appear regularly in the American and international press.[170][49]
Concluding an ABC television news broadcast, anchor man Frank Reynolds said to his audience that, as a consequence of the allegations, ‘‘our spirit as a people is scarred.’’ The massacre, he believed, offered ‘‘the most compelling argument yet advanced for America to end its involvement in Vietnam, not alone because of what the war is doing to the Vietnamese or to our reputation abroad, but because of what it is doing to us.’
Three American media outlets that weren't censored by the government. How do you think this is handled in Russia? In China?
If we used non-western (or even independent western) outlets to talk about something that major western outlets don't, you'd dismiss it as propaganda and conspiracy theory
Lib: The American media doesn't lie.
Leftist: Here's evidence that it does, from Western sources
Lib: Ah, but at least those Western sources reported it!
Leftist: Alright, here's evidence that it lies, from non-western sources
Lib: You don't really believe that propaganda, do you?
Unfalsifiable orthodoxy.
Thank you for putting that into words I had trouble picking my jaw up off the floor after reading their reply.
How do you think it's handled? And why do you think that?
You should read Kill Anything That Moves by Nick Turse
Americans have utterly memory holed the fact that their soldiers brutally murdered, mutilated and gang raped hundreds of unarmed women and children and that the only consequences were that the commander who personally murdered 22 people received just 3 and half years house arrest. Some of the people who did this are still alive and walk free despite having committed some of the most unthinkable evils against civilians with impunity and have been explicitly pardoned by the US government.
This crime is far worse than Tiananmen (which has estimates of a death toll between 200 to ~500 with the CPC putting the estimate at 300 including dead Chinese soldiers and police) on its own but it's not taught in schools, even in the history of the Vietnam war (despite the role Hersh's exposé played in helping to sway public perception against the war) and many Americans have no idea it ever happened.
The US government doesn’t have to (but still does anyway) mislead its own citizens because it works hand in glove with the class it represents (not you) which does all the misleading via the private “free press” that it owns and operates for it’s own benefit.
For the life of me I will never understand why liberals think something bad is less bad when it is a private actor doing it instead of the government, but the private actors actually control more of your daily life than the government does because you live in a neoliberal hellscape.
You have no control over anything the government OR the corporate overlords do. Does it really matter which one is screwing you when they’re basically all the same people anyway?
With regard to China, please just try to ask yourself why the standard of living has been improving there for decades while it continues to decline in the US. It’s not fucking rocket science, but you can’t rely on western corporate media to explain it to you.
I think most of users on hexbear and lemmygrad are not from US, so internal US politics is not so important to them, foreign policy is and that's where US made a lot of haters.
It is not even that surprising, every country that was in war with US involved is not liking it, no one likes other nation's army on their teritory, whatever the reason.
A ton of hexbear users are from the US, and still live there.
Yep, sorry my mistake. Thanks for correcting me.
we are trapped in the belly of this beast, and,
, it is bleeding to death
lol what? hexbear is largely amerikan. we just have a lot of international users bc we arent racist. US internal politics are horrific as well. Biden wrote the bill responsible for the massive increase in policing and the war on drugs in 1994
Makes sense, since podcast is from US too. Thank you for correcting me, I have never spent much time there since I don't get the humor.
no problem. ik theres a lot of inside jokes so it can be confusing at first, but we are very welcoming as long as ur receptive to left-wing politics and act in good faith
deleted by creator
inventing the reality of the 1989 TIANANMEN Square Massacre in the first place
deleted by creator
Aside from the incredible irony of this statement that others have mentioned
What leads you to being able to think of examples in China? Was it because you were there and experienced it yourself? Or did you hear about it from people who were there? Did you look through archives in China? Did you see modern reporting from (to pick an arbitrary state) India on this topic?
Or did you hear about it from western media themselves?
Can you see a conflict of interest in that conception of things? Perhaps especially when it comes to reporting on media fabrications in the west?
Edit: Russiagate is a fun example because I don't give a shit either way, but the Dem-aligned media did an excellent job of convincing their base that Russia first hacked the election and then somehow flipped the election with Facebook ads, and had QAnon-level lore with Igor Fuckstyvich and Boris Shitov in a great web of conspiracy theories to draw connections between people. It was all so tedious that I stopped following it pretty early, but a lot of people still genuinely believe that shit even as it was shown that Russia did very, very little.
Also it keeps evading the notice of liberals that if Russia bought the election, that means Facebook sold it! I think that second one would be much more of a concern, especially since it should be more actionable for the US to control one of its own companies. Whoops.
Edit 2: Consider that most of what you believe about the DPRK is false because the media in the west is just a constant churn of comically bullshit stories. haircuts, anyone?
Hard to see anything but trees when you're in the forest
North Dakota Access Pipeline Protests 北达科他州接入管道抗议 Ferguson Riots 弗格森暴动 2017 St. Louis protests2017年圣路易斯抗议活动 Nuclear testing at Bikini Atoll 比基尼环礁的核试验 Unite the Right rally 团结右集会 Charlotte riots 夏洛特暴动 Attack on the Sui-ho Dam 袭击穗河水坝 Milwaukee riots 密尔沃基骚乱 Shooting of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile 奥尔顿·斯特林和菲兰多·卡斯蒂利亚的射击 Occupation of the Malheur NationalWildlife Refuge Malheur国家野生动物保护区的占领 death of Freddie Gray 弗雷迪·格雷的死 Shooting of Michael Brown迈克尔·布朗的拍摄 death of Eric Garner, Oakland California 奥克兰奥克兰市埃里克·加纳（Eric Garner）逝世 Operation Condor 神鹰行动 Occupy WallStreet 占领华尔街 My Lai Massacre 我的大屠杀 St. Petersburg, Florida 佛罗里达州圣彼得堡 Kandahar Massacre 坎大哈屠杀 1992Washington Heights riots 1992年华盛顿高地暴动 No Gun Ri Massacre 无枪杀案 L.A. Rodney King riots 洛杉矶罗德尼·金暴动 1979 Greensboro Massacre 1979年格林斯伯勒大屠杀 Vietnam War 越南战争 Kent State shootings肯特州枪击案 Bombing of Tokyo 轰炸东京 San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing 旧金山警察局公园站爆炸案 Assassination of MartinLuther King, Jr. 小马丁·路德·金遭暗杀。 Long Hot Summer of 1967 1967年炎热的夏天 Bagram 巴格拉姆 Selma to Montgomery marches 塞尔玛到蒙哥马利游行 Highway of Death 死亡之路 Ax Handle Saturday 星期六斧头 Battle of Evarts 埃瓦茨战役 Battle ofBlair Mountain 布莱尔山战役 McCarthyism 麦卡锡主义 Red Summer 红色夏天 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Pottawatomie massacre 盆大屠杀 Jeju uprising 济州起义 Colfaxmassacre 科尔法克斯大屠杀 Reading Railroad massacre 阅读铁路大屠杀 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Bay viewMassacre 湾景大屠杀 Lattimer massacre 拉蒂默大屠杀 Ludlow massacre 拉德洛屠杀 Everett massacre 埃弗里特屠杀Centralia Massacre 中部大屠杀 Ocoee massacre Ocoee大屠杀 Herrin Massacre 赫林大屠杀 Redwood Massacre红木大屠杀 Columbine Mine Massacre 哥伦拜恩矿难 Guantanamo Bay 关塔那摩湾 extraordinary rendition 非凡的演绎 Abu Ghraib torture and prison abuse 阿布格莱布的酷刑和监狱虐待 Henry Kissinger 亨利·基辛格
You should probably re-read Manufacturing Consent.
If you've even read it in the first place lol