Yes, it is true - if you look at the numbers as a whole, China does emit more carbon than America. But what constantly goes artfully elided in these statements is that their carbon emissions PER CAPITA is WAY lower than America’s. Of course they emit more carbon, like four times as many people live there. But what China doesn’t have are single individuals driving military grade gas guzzling SUVs two blocks to buy groceries twice a week. Also, most of their emissions come from industrial plants that produce all of the goods whose production WE OUTSOURCE TO THEM. The only reason their carbon emissions are so high is because western capitalists realized it’d be cheaper to move production there than keep them in the first world. Also, Bernie, who is making a massive investment in green energy? I’ll give you a hint, it’s only one of these countries. So it should be less about “America and China need to put aside their differences and work together”, a statement that tacitly implies that there’s something China isn’t doing that they need to start, and more about “America needs to catch the fuck up to China’s massive pivot toward green energy”.
China does emit more carbon than America. But what constantly goes artfully elided in these statements is that their carbon emissions PER CAPITA is WAY lower than America’s.
Even more compelling than the total versus per capita distinction is the cumulative vs annual distinction. If we just go with annual, China looks way worse. But it's important to remember that countries like England industrialized an entire century earlier than China did.
1300 CE: swarthy merchant man do math with symbol instead of tally. John be like swarthy man!
2023 CE: more people do more thing! How that work!??!?!!!
Chinese are obsessed with big cars just like the US. Many German marques have China exclusive models like “L” version for more popular models which not just longer but also heavier
1 in 4 cars sold in China in 2022 were EVs, and China has more than 50% of global share of EVs. Anecdotally, even with Chinese cars that aren't EVs, it's pretty rare to see the massive trucks or SUVs that are more common in the US, though they do exist. Also if you look at total car ownership per capita, China (226 vehicles per 1000 people) is well below the US (908 vehicles per 1000 people).
I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a truly big truck that gets used for anything productive. The trucks that are actually used for real work all seem to be non-fancy mid or small size pickups.
their railway is arguably their government's best modern project, will literally pay dividends for decades to come. uplifted so many people from poverty and improving social mobility. say what you want about the lack of freedom there, gotta hand it to their government for getting shit done sometimes.
It's so pleasant to ride too. So smooth you can't even feel it accelerate, plenty of legroom even for tall foreigners, lots of outlets and the cell service is rock solid the whole way
Gotta say, The Governance of China hits different on a Fuxing Hao at 350km/h
"Bruh" When did i say that? merely drawing parallels that Chinese people love big cars just like people in US.
tho they don't have huge pick up trucks and what not last time i was there. And what's so good about US car culture anyway, most people are driving around in Altimas and Camrys.
you're resorting to ad-hominem but you're accusing me of engaging in "bad-faith" discussion WHEN you are the relentless one hounding me non-stop. I'm fucking eating my guy, you expect me to engage you like a keyboard warrior at a moments notice? i don't ahve to work or eat or do other adult stuff?
I never knew that, so thanks for letting me know, but be that as it may, there exists far less car dependent infrastructure in China. In America, that giant car is your only option. In China, you usually have way more sustainable options, which we see reflected in their lower carbon emissions per capita.
In China, you usually have way more sustainable options, which we see reflected in their lower carbon emissions per capita.
True that, they are leading the EV game. Even Audi is forming a JV with state-owned SAIC. I believe Volkswagen is doing the same thing with another Chinese EV company.
cars are not inherently bad, it's only bad when you have a government that entirely expect people to rely on cars as a transport. I would argue for big countries like US and China, car is still the way to go. But public infrastructure ie. public transport has to keep up as well to give people an option. A
lso micromobility only works in urban centres. I live in suburbs myself, i can kinda use my e-scooter as a last mile transport solution but anything more than 5km i would say it's a bit of a stretch.
The vast majority of people in China don't own cars and don't live in suburbs, most people live in apartment complexes where everyday services are within 20 minutes walk from their building.
Like American car culture is completely unsustainable in China. China right now has a 1/4 of the per capita car ownership of the US and they have some of the worst congestion in the world. Beijing and many other large cities only allow people to drive their cars two or three days out of the week. They base it off the last number on your license plate, and the cops will stop and potentially impound your car if you are driving on the wrong day. And this policy has like 90% support becuase of how bad traffic is otherwise.
71% of Chinese people own a car, 92% of American people own a car. The US is the highest car ownership rate on Earth outside of tiny little rich countries like Liechtenstein and San Marino. China is number 94 beneath the Dominican Republic, Syria, Malaysia, Bulgaria, Uruguay, etc.
If he was actually serious about it and not just grandstanding too he would be addressing America and America only, because he's an American senator and can only impact American choices. His pushes for change need to be within America only. The only way an American senator exerts any power or influence in China is via imperialism, sanctions, economic violence. America doesn't need to worry about what China is doing at all, it needs to look internally and fix itself. Bernie needs to shut the fuck up on the fence sitting and focus his efforts where they could actually have an impact if he really truly cared.
Yes, it is true - if you look at the numbers as a whole, China does emit more carbon than America. But what constantly goes artfully elided in these statements is that their carbon emissions PER CAPITA is WAY lower than America’s. Of course they emit more carbon, like four times as many people live there. But what China doesn’t have are single individuals driving military grade gas guzzling SUVs two blocks to buy groceries twice a week. Also, most of their emissions come from industrial plants that produce all of the goods whose production WE OUTSOURCE TO THEM. The only reason their carbon emissions are so high is because western capitalists realized it’d be cheaper to move production there than keep them in the first world. Also, Bernie, who is making a massive investment in green energy? I’ll give you a hint, it’s only one of these countries. So it should be less about “America and China need to put aside their differences and work together”, a statement that tacitly implies that there’s something China isn’t doing that they need to start, and more about “America needs to catch the fuck up to China’s massive pivot toward green energy”.
I spam this vijay prashad clip at people any time someone brings up china's emissions
Even more compelling than the total versus per capita distinction is the cumulative vs annual distinction. If we just go with annual, China looks way worse. But it's important to remember that countries like England industrialized an entire century earlier than China did.
Prashad is so good
more like 40 minutes and 30 miles
1300 CE: swarthy merchant man do math with symbol instead of tally. John be like swarthy man!
2023 CE: more people do more thing! How that work!??!?!!!
Chinese are obsessed with big cars just like the US. Many German marques have China exclusive models like “L” version for more popular models which not just longer but also heavier
1 in 4 cars sold in China in 2022 were EVs, and China has more than 50% of global share of EVs. Anecdotally, even with Chinese cars that aren't EVs, it's pretty rare to see the massive trucks or SUVs that are more common in the US, though they do exist. Also if you look at total car ownership per capita, China (226 vehicles per 1000 people) is well below the US (908 vehicles per 1000 people).
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I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a truly big truck that gets used for anything productive. The trucks that are actually used for real work all seem to be non-fancy mid or small size pickups.
interesting stats, thanks for the information
But the government actually cares about stamping down on cars. Congestion policy in big cities is actively hostile to cars.
I saw so many fucking buicks there
But also the trains are so, so good.
their railway is arguably their government's best modern project, will literally pay dividends for decades to come. uplifted so many people from poverty and improving social mobility. say what you want about the lack of freedom there, gotta hand it to their government for getting shit done sometimes.
It's so pleasant to ride too. So smooth you can't even feel it accelerate, plenty of legroom even for tall foreigners, lots of outlets and the cell service is rock solid the whole way
Gotta say, The Governance of China hits different on a Fuxing Hao at 350km/h
China is more free than America
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"Bruh" When did i say that? merely drawing parallels that Chinese people love big cars just like people in US.
tho they don't have huge pick up trucks and what not last time i was there. And what's so good about US car culture anyway, most people are driving around in Altimas and Camrys.
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respond to pooh's stats
i have bruh
thank you :bruh:
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you: puts a photo of your mum as response
also you: WheN You EngAge in Bad-FaiTh diScuSsiOn
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i already have ya creep
you're resorting to ad-hominem but you're accusing me of engaging in "bad-faith" discussion WHEN you are the relentless one hounding me non-stop. I'm fucking eating my guy, you expect me to engage you like a keyboard warrior at a moments notice? i don't ahve to work or eat or do other adult stuff?
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I never knew that, so thanks for letting me know, but be that as it may, there exists far less car dependent infrastructure in China. In America, that giant car is your only option. In China, you usually have way more sustainable options, which we see reflected in their lower carbon emissions per capita.
True that, they are leading the EV game. Even Audi is forming a JV with state-owned SAIC. I believe Volkswagen is doing the same thing with another Chinese EV company.
EVs still cars, still bad.
But China is also leading the micromobility game, with fast, cheap, and powerful escooters, EUCs, eskate, and so on.
cars are not inherently bad, it's only bad when you have a government that entirely expect people to rely on cars as a transport. I would argue for big countries like US and China, car is still the way to go. But public infrastructure ie. public transport has to keep up as well to give people an option. A
lso micromobility only works in urban centres. I live in suburbs myself, i can kinda use my e-scooter as a last mile transport solution but anything more than 5km i would say it's a bit of a stretch.
cars are inherently bad demolish the suburbs
Most based 1 day account
It took a while to find the right instance
The vast majority of people in China don't own cars and don't live in suburbs, most people live in apartment complexes where everyday services are within 20 minutes walk from their building.
Like American car culture is completely unsustainable in China. China right now has a 1/4 of the per capita car ownership of the US and they have some of the worst congestion in the world. Beijing and many other large cities only allow people to drive their cars two or three days out of the week. They base it off the last number on your license plate, and the cops will stop and potentially impound your car if you are driving on the wrong day. And this policy has like 90% support becuase of how bad traffic is otherwise.
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ok, don't drive or ride in a car then
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I was thinking more along the lines of trains and other public transportation options.
71% of Chinese people own a car, 92% of American people own a car. The US is the highest car ownership rate on Earth outside of tiny little rich countries like Liechtenstein and San Marino. China is number 94 beneath the Dominican Republic, Syria, Malaysia, Bulgaria, Uruguay, etc.
If he was actually serious about it and not just grandstanding too he would be addressing America and America only, because he's an American senator and can only impact American choices. His pushes for change need to be within America only. The only way an American senator exerts any power or influence in China is via imperialism, sanctions, economic violence. America doesn't need to worry about what China is doing at all, it needs to look internally and fix itself. Bernie needs to shut the fuck up on the fence sitting and focus his efforts where they could actually have an impact if he really truly cared.