The US is willing to kill hundreds of thousands (millions) of people for trying to pass things like small labor reforms i.e the Jakarta Method in Indonesia
Americans are the drug trade, the world supply of opium dropped to almost nothing after Americans retreated from Afghanistan and the Taliban re-established their already right-wing, pre-American invasion policies on poppy crops.
The drug war funds the CIA black budget the same way Civil Asset Forfeiture funds your local police department.
The USA is willing to let other people kill people in Jakarta. The US military is not doing it themselves which is the difference here. The US DoD would have to sign off on the extrajudicial killings of Afghani civilians vs not engaging in war crimes to stop killing in Indonesia.
The rest of your post compounds on that ignorance.
Not sure why you're drawing a magical difference between the US military telling its troops to do it and the US military telling some other troops to do it. Both are happening at the request of the US.
Tying yourself up into knots over explaining legal definitions to the barrel of a gun.
The rules are made up and interpretations are deferred until after the fact to justify the actions and interests of a state.
Any political or historical education would make this abundantly clear but Americans are raised to believe fairy-tales into adulthood.
Liberals really don't have the tools to pick the world apart, only the most educated and outwardly evil liberals like Kissinger are comfortable being honest with themselves.
Yes it is. What the fuck do you think extrajudicial killing means? It means a killing that took place without a legal judgement. That's it. That's all it means.
You are inventing your own idea of "extrajudicial" here, in which you have decided entirely in your own head that one means "good killing" and the other means "bad killing".
And at the end of the day all of this is just you trying to divert away from the issue - both are killing at the orders of the US empire. You're dancing around this because you're trying to argue that one is more acceptable than the other because you are a nationalist supporter of that empire and its campaign of mass murder, which you view as something to your personal benefit like a rube.
It's a battle because the people the want to kill are defending themselves. That doesn't make it not extra judicial - not that judicial is somehow an adjective that makes anything moral or whatever
I love how debate nerds get so caught up in whether something is legal or not. News flash, laws are worthless without enforcement, and there isn’t currently any entity capable of preventing NATO forces from murdering people whenever they please
Someone is a transphobe in that example of yours, and when I find out who I'm going to kill them (don't worry it's okay, I have a piece of paper that says it's not extra judicial)
The USA is willing to let other people kill people in Jakarta. The US military is not doing it themselves which is the difference here.
That's not what the Jakarta method is, sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.
The rest of your post compounds on that ignorance.
You can try saying that but you have a giant gap in your history education, and with that, a fundamentally incomplete way of seeing and interpreting the world, and world events.
You don't seem to be aware of Afghanistan pre-American intervention, the left direction of Afghanistan's development (the sovietization of Afghanistan), its former place in the international socialist bloc, or the reasons driving the nation's current relations with China.
Take a long look at America's relationship to the UAE and Israeli right-bulwarks and the general relationship and co-operation between the Soviets and the Islamic regions of the world. For whatever mistakes they made there were strong bonds between Soviets and Islam and together they would have built the middle east into the center of the advanced world again. The eastern republics would have landed on the Lunar South pole well before India did this month.
The US has no interest in mutual and internationalist development, the entire core logic of the American project is post-colonial extraction. There aren't sufficient democratic structures of enough robustness and sophistication to steer the project otherwise. Underlying any and all decisions by the American state is nothing and only capital.
Oh I an aware of how the extremely small and unpopular communist movement within Afghanistan forced its jackboots down the throats of the working people of Afghanistan.
The Jakarta method was when 1 million people were murdered by the Indonesian military. Why aren't you blaming the Indonesian government for that as they very willingly took part? It's the sane situation the USA isn't killing these people and asking why they don't stop it is asking why the USA isn't the world police.
The Jakarta method, underselling it, describes US collaboration with right-wing capitalist governments to violently suppress left-wing organizing toward the transition to a socialist economy and mode of production. The Jakarta method differs from previous interventions with a wildly increased emphasis on daily terror, sexual violence and raising home-grown colonial-born, American trained, armed, and funded, equivalents of Weimar Germany's Freikorp via the convergence of interests between liberals (capitalists) and fascists (capitalists).
You're outing yourself by either not knowing, or purposely omitting, the role of the PKI, the world's largest Communist Party outside of China and the Soviet Union. A varied but ultimately democratic socialist organization historically defined and remembered by and because of its pacifism, and self-disarmament.
This Party came in the wave of the Soviet-aligned post-war wave of anti-colonial revolutions and class consciousness that supported solidified after the Soviet defeat of the newcomer fascist bloc of capital (as opposed to the incumbent 'liberal' bloc of capital) during the second world war. Their destruction came after a string of successful resistances to American anti-socialist intervention immediately after the war. In Eastern Europe, in Korea and in Vietnam. The Jakarta method describes a more sophisticated, and wildly more violent and shocking, fascist response to the left-wing self-organization of former-colonial subject states. An intensity and volume of bloodshed, sexual violence, terrorism, and lies that you're repeating to this day.
Repeating because of something as simple and flimsy as an address on a spreadsheet.
Edit: and yes communists and anti-colonialists have for what you're describing, they're called collaborators. You're describing the administrative state that's left in place to manage the flow of commodities and western capital during both formal colonial occupation and the imperialist post-colonial period of capital penetration.
The US actively supported the killing and provided names of people to be killed, they didn’t just “not stop it” you fucking dingus. They ARE the “world police” and like other police they are murderous scumbags
I get that you are a communist and thus almost certainly really bad at thinking but do you think the military is pulling the triggers themselves instead of those they arm and train?
That very smart liberal is very good at thinking because their treats are full of The Adults In The Room that Make The Hard Decisions and Get Shit Done and they are fun to LARP about!
Yes, but you see, a judge said the attack helicopter was right to strafe the ambulance full of children. So not extrajudicial like, say, the former and current government of Afghanistan, because only US laws count.
uhhhhh, well in my simulator games, super advanced ones by the way (hoi4), you just spam divisions, line them up on the border, and point them. The real trick is to wait for when the green bubbles (good) turn into red bubbles) bad, and wait for a bit. I am very smart.
The US actively backed Suharto to coup the democratically elected government of Indonesia and then western press ran apologia for both the military coup and the murder of 1 million communists, feminists and ethnic minorities by the aforementioned unelected US backed military dictatorship
So what you're saying is, if I were to hire a hitman to take out your sorry white cracker ass, I would be completely justified and be free of any blame?
The US is willing to kill hundreds of thousands (millions) of people for trying to pass things like small labor reforms i.e the Jakarta Method in Indonesia
Americans are the drug trade, the world supply of opium dropped to almost nothing after Americans retreated from Afghanistan and the Taliban re-established their already right-wing, pre-American invasion policies on poppy crops.
The drug war funds the CIA black budget the same way Civil Asset Forfeiture funds your local police department.
The USA is willing to let other people kill people in Jakarta. The US military is not doing it themselves which is the difference here. The US DoD would have to sign off on the extrajudicial killings of Afghani civilians vs not engaging in war crimes to stop killing in Indonesia.
The rest of your post compounds on that ignorance.
Not sure why you're drawing a magical difference between the US military telling its troops to do it and the US military telling some other troops to do it. Both are happening at the request of the US.
The word "extrajudicially" should explain that difference
It's extrajudicial BOTH WAYS you fucking dipshit. It's not magically different. Both are extrajudicial.
Why the fuck are you treating it differently?? Answer the question.
no more half measures walter
me every time I see this bit account
Because killing someone in a battle as an act of war isn't extrajudicial killing.
Tying yourself up into knots over explaining legal definitions to the barrel of a gun.
The rules are made up and interpretations are deferred until after the fact to justify the actions and interests of a state.
Any political or historical education would make this abundantly clear but Americans are raised to believe fairy-tales into adulthood.
Liberals really don't have the tools to pick the world apart, only the most educated and outwardly evil liberals like Kissinger are comfortable being honest with themselves.
No wonder you hate socialists.
Yes it is. What the fuck do you think extrajudicial killing means? It means a killing that took place without a legal judgement. That's it. That's all it means.
You are inventing your own idea of "extrajudicial" here, in which you have decided entirely in your own head that one means "good killing" and the other means "bad killing".
And at the end of the day all of this is just you trying to divert away from the issue - both are killing at the orders of the US empire. You're dancing around this because you're trying to argue that one is more acceptable than the other because you are a nationalist supporter of that empire and its campaign of mass murder, which you view as something to your personal benefit like a rube.
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It's a battle because the people the want to kill are defending themselves. That doesn't make it not extra judicial - not that judicial is somehow an adjective that makes anything moral or whatever
I love how debate nerds get so caught up in whether something is legal or not. News flash, laws are worthless without enforcement, and there isn’t currently any entity capable of preventing NATO forces from murdering people whenever they please
Murder becomes not bad if a judge says "murder is okay."
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Someone is a transphobe in that example of yours, and when I find out who I'm going to kill them (don't worry it's okay, I have a piece of paper that says it's not extra judicial)
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No no, I'm not saying you're a transphobe, I just noticed this and found it funny
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Whomst among us?
That's not what the Jakarta method is, sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.
You can try saying that but you have a giant gap in your history education, and with that, a fundamentally incomplete way of seeing and interpreting the world, and world events.
You don't seem to be aware of Afghanistan pre-American intervention, the left direction of Afghanistan's development (the sovietization of Afghanistan), its former place in the international socialist bloc, or the reasons driving the nation's current relations with China.
Take a long look at America's relationship to the UAE and Israeli right-bulwarks and the general relationship and co-operation between the Soviets and the Islamic regions of the world. For whatever mistakes they made there were strong bonds between Soviets and Islam and together they would have built the middle east into the center of the advanced world again. The eastern republics would have landed on the Lunar South pole well before India did this month.
The US has no interest in mutual and internationalist development, the entire core logic of the American project is post-colonial extraction. There aren't sufficient democratic structures of enough robustness and sophistication to steer the project otherwise. Underlying any and all decisions by the American state is nothing and only capital.
Oh I an aware of how the extremely small and unpopular communist movement within Afghanistan forced its jackboots down the throats of the working people of Afghanistan.
So you like the US support the jihadists?
“Forced its jackboots down the throats”
Lmfao they sent girls to school and other liberatory things, that’s what got the jihadists (and apparently you) riled up.
The Jakarta method was when 1 million people were murdered by the Indonesian military. Why aren't you blaming the Indonesian government for that as they very willingly took part? It's the sane situation the USA isn't killing these people and asking why they don't stop it is asking why the USA isn't the world police.
The Jakarta method, underselling it, describes US collaboration with right-wing capitalist governments to violently suppress left-wing organizing toward the transition to a socialist economy and mode of production. The Jakarta method differs from previous interventions with a wildly increased emphasis on daily terror, sexual violence and raising home-grown colonial-born, American trained, armed, and funded, equivalents of Weimar Germany's Freikorp via the convergence of interests between liberals (capitalists) and fascists (capitalists).
You're outing yourself by either not knowing, or purposely omitting, the role of the PKI, the world's largest Communist Party outside of China and the Soviet Union. A varied but ultimately democratic socialist organization historically defined and remembered by and because of its pacifism, and self-disarmament.
This Party came in the wave of the Soviet-aligned post-war wave of anti-colonial revolutions and class consciousness that supported solidified after the Soviet defeat of the newcomer fascist bloc of capital (as opposed to the incumbent 'liberal' bloc of capital) during the second world war. Their destruction came after a string of successful resistances to American anti-socialist intervention immediately after the war. In Eastern Europe, in Korea and in Vietnam. The Jakarta method describes a more sophisticated, and wildly more violent and shocking, fascist response to the left-wing self-organization of former-colonial subject states. An intensity and volume of bloodshed, sexual violence, terrorism, and lies that you're repeating to this day.
Repeating because of something as simple and flimsy as an address on a spreadsheet.
Edit: and yes communists and anti-colonialists have for what you're describing, they're called collaborators. You're describing the administrative state that's left in place to manage the flow of commodities and western capital during both formal colonial occupation and the imperialist post-colonial period of capital penetration.
The US actively supported the killing and provided names of people to be killed, they didn’t just “not stop it” you fucking dingus. They ARE the “world police” and like other police they are murderous scumbags
I get that you are a communist and thus almost certainly really bad at thinking but do you think the military is pulling the triggers themselves instead of those they arm and train?
What do you call drone striking weddings and funerals? What else would you call the murder of children? Bombing a hospital to rubble surely isn't extrajudicial murder at the hands of American soldiers? Forgive me for linking wikipedia, but strafing civilians including journalists with attack helicopters must count as extrajudicial murders by the hands of American troops
You are a clown.
That very smart liberal is very good at thinking because their treats are full of The Adults In The Room that Make The Hard Decisions and Get Shit Done and they are fun to LARP about!
Yes, but you see, a judge said the attack helicopter was right to strafe the ambulance full of children. So not extrajudicial like, say, the former and current government of Afghanistan, because only US laws count.
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I'm really curious as to how you think militaries operate. Draw me a picture.
As if a militaries entire reason for being isn't arming and training people to pull triggers for them lmfao
uhhhhh, well in my simulator games, super advanced ones by the way (hoi4), you just spam divisions, line them up on the border, and point them. The real trick is to wait for when the green bubbles (good) turn into red bubbles) bad, and wait for a bit. I am very smart.
how many qualifiers do you need for an adjective as boring as “bad”? you are certainly entirely absolutely unequivocally horrible at writing
Answer their response you coward. Use your big brain to refute their argument.
The US actively backed Suharto to coup the democratically elected government of Indonesia and then western press ran apologia for both the military coup and the murder of 1 million communists, feminists and ethnic minorities by the aforementioned unelected US backed military dictatorship
"The rest of your post compounds on that ignorance"
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So what you're saying is, if I were to hire a hitman to take out your sorry white cracker ass, I would be completely justified and be free of any blame?
I think we should try it
As long as the proper paperwork is filled out, liberals have no problem with genocide.
One of the few times reading something actually made me laugh irl. 'Sorry white cracker ass.'
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