I enjoyed 86 because of the von Neumann 'robots' the protagonists are fighting because, and mind you I only watched the first season minus the final episode,
show spoiler
The concept of an artificial intelligence thats built off of a cybernetic neural network that can be continually expanded by inputting more organic matter actually filled me with a sense of existential terror at the very concept. It makes one question whether or not the cyberware can be concidered a living organism, a question of how concious inputted brains are, and so many more thoughts along that vein.
Also would they be considered a form of zombies since they're hunting for brains?
Yeah, I'd count the robots as zombies. To me they filled the same storytelling role as zombies- a metaphor for a big existential threat like climate change, and I think the show did a good job of illustrating just how ill-equipped an ideology like fascism would be at dealing with something like that.
Season 2 goes into more detail about the sci-fi aspects of the show, like how the robots came to be and what their goals are. For me it was overall a lot weaker compared to S1, not that it was bad.
Huh sounds like season two sounds more up my alley in terms of sci-fi-horror nerd shit then. I personally thought the whole story metaphor for a fascist society was so unsubtly hamfisted I was turned off by it and pretty much anything having to so with the society the writers world built made me want to skip back to the kids on the front line.
Like I guess I'd get it if the authors' intent was to convey fascism fucking sucks by being as obtuse as possible about it to make sure that everybody but the most ignorant people on the subject matter knows what the hell the author's message is. I still don't like getting beaten over the head with the silly metaphorical clown hammer though.
The more compelling part of the show for me was the constant flashbacks to the happier times on the kids side, where characters who were long dead at the present we're having meaningful interactions with each other. It really got to me and you can easily contrast that with the ones in the core shirking their duties of telling kids to go to their death. I think the most hamfisted metaphor was the neural link being an "empathy" test. As someone who's media illiterate I thought the show was unique because it's so rare to find a show with a straightforward depiction of fascism exploiting/sacrificing an out group to sustain it's way of life/treat consumption.
Like you said the story on the front was far more interesting and thats where the show spent a lot of it's time
I get it, but given the state of media literacy I'm much more predisposed to how the 86 author does things than anything subtler. Like I alluded to above, some people really need to get hit over the head repeatedly with the bluntest allegories possible, even if it's not you or me. After all, we live in a world where the Starship Troopers and Fight Club movies can be willfully misinterpreted. Having said that, the thing I found personally most compelling about the show was in how it depicted the human costs of racism and fascism, and the toll it takes even on those who supposedly benefit from those systems of oppression. I thought the character writing and the dramatization of that theme were particularly strong.
S2 summary
Season 2 is mostly about PTSD and a genocide survivor dealing with survivor's guilt, just a heads up. They flesh out the world-building a bit but tbh some of the answers the show supplies to the questions you're asking aren't very compelling, and imo were better left unanswered to make the robots scarier, but ymmv. There's also one new character that gets introduced who's actually really annoying too, you'll know why the minute they appear on-screen. The runtime is mostly filled with sci-fi mecha tank battles (hence the need to flesh out the worldbuilding, so you understand the robots tactics and maneuvers) so if that's your cup of tea I'd recommend it.
I thought the character writing and the dramatization of that theme were particularly strong.
I'd agree with that. Outside of my own personal interests in the ghosts in the machines the major draw to the show was definitely the characters and how their stories were interwoven together in their journey of life towards many of their deaths.
It is a bit sad that postmodern irony poisoning has killed storytelling with any kind of nuance. I'm watching Pluto rn and it feels wonderful to have a show not handhold you and just present concepts and ideas for the viewer to think about, no matter how esoteric or high concept sci-fi they are.
But also I have an inexplicable urge to scream "THE ROBOTS ARE AN ALLEGORY FOR THE WORKING CLASS!!!" at the top of my lungs
I keep hearing about the pluto show and how great it is. I also know the story was concocted by the same guy that made Monster. I can already tell that you enjoy the show, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it so far.
It's basically playing with a lot of the same concepts that Bladerunner 2049 is (right down to the police procedural framing device), but because it has a longer runtime and a larger cast it's able to give it's ideas more time to breath, so the mystery is an actual mystery and the sci-fi gets to be kinda out-there in a good way. It's also not afraid to get political- I dunno if it'll stick the landing yet but yeah there's a very thinly veiled allegory about the Iraq war and Foucault's boomerang here (that's kinda True Detective Season 2-ish?), and the main character being a cop from an allegorical minority worked well enough in for exploring systemic issues and it works well enough here, although again I'm only halfway thru so I dunno if it'll stick the landing
It's something I always noticed with a lot of Japanese shows I've watched is that it seems like it's really hard to stick the landing regardless of how well they constructed the story over its runtime.
It's only 8 episodes (albeit 1 hr eps) and I had the day off lol
Without spoiling too much, the story does tie all the loose ends up but imo it kinda rushes the ending, and ends up with a kinda non-commital run-of-the-mill politics (especially compared to something like Bladerunner 2049).
Yeah that sounds about right in terms of unsatisfactory wrap-ups. It's not particularly surprising since that's usually how it is with wrap-ups but still leaves a bit of an empty feeling in ya
I enjoyed 86 because of the von Neumann 'robots' the protagonists are fighting because, and mind you I only watched the first season minus the final episode,
show spoiler
The concept of an artificial intelligence thats built off of a cybernetic neural network that can be continually expanded by inputting more organic matter actually filled me with a sense of existential terror at the very concept. It makes one question whether or not the cyberware can be concidered a living organism, a question of how concious inputted brains are, and so many more thoughts along that vein.
Also would they be considered a form of zombies since they're hunting for brains?
spoiler
Yeah, I'd count the robots as zombies. To me they filled the same storytelling role as zombies- a metaphor for a big existential threat like climate change, and I think the show did a good job of illustrating just how ill-equipped an ideology like fascism would be at dealing with something like that.
Season 2 goes into more detail about the sci-fi aspects of the show, like how the robots came to be and what their goals are. For me it was overall a lot weaker compared to S1, not that it was bad.
Huh sounds like season two sounds more up my alley in terms of sci-fi-horror nerd shit then. I personally thought the whole story metaphor for a fascist society was so unsubtly hamfisted I was turned off by it and pretty much anything having to so with the society the writers world built made me want to skip back to the kids on the front line.
Like I guess I'd get it if the authors' intent was to convey fascism fucking sucks by being as obtuse as possible about it to make sure that everybody but the most ignorant people on the subject matter knows what the hell the author's message is. I still don't like getting beaten over the head with the silly metaphorical clown hammer though.
spoiler
The more compelling part of the show for me was the constant flashbacks to the happier times on the kids side, where characters who were long dead at the present we're having meaningful interactions with each other. It really got to me and you can easily contrast that with the ones in the core shirking their duties of telling kids to go to their death. I think the most hamfisted metaphor was the neural link being an "empathy" test. As someone who's media illiterate I thought the show was unique because it's so rare to find a show with a straightforward depiction of fascism exploiting/sacrificing an out group to sustain it's way of life/treat consumption.
Like you said the story on the front was far more interesting and thats where the show spent a lot of it's time
.
I get it, but given the state of media literacy I'm much more predisposed to how the 86 author does things than anything subtler. Like I alluded to above, some people really need to get hit over the head repeatedly with the bluntest allegories possible, even if it's not you or me. After all, we live in a world where the Starship Troopers and Fight Club movies can be willfully misinterpreted. Having said that, the thing I found personally most compelling about the show was in how it depicted the human costs of racism and fascism, and the toll it takes even on those who supposedly benefit from those systems of oppression. I thought the character writing and the dramatization of that theme were particularly strong.
S2 summary
Season 2 is mostly about PTSD and a genocide survivor dealing with survivor's guilt, just a heads up. They flesh out the world-building a bit but tbh some of the answers the show supplies to the questions you're asking aren't very compelling, and imo were better left unanswered to make the robots scarier, but ymmv. There's also one new character that gets introduced who's actually really annoying too, you'll know why the minute they appear on-screen. The runtime is mostly filled with sci-fi mecha tank battles (hence the need to flesh out the worldbuilding, so you understand the robots tactics and maneuvers) so if that's your cup of tea I'd recommend it.
I'd agree with that. Outside of my own personal interests in the ghosts in the machines the major draw to the show was definitely the characters and how their stories were interwoven together in their journey of life towards many of their deaths.
It is a bit sad that postmodern irony poisoning has killed storytelling with any kind of nuance. I'm watching Pluto rn and it feels wonderful to have a show not handhold you and just present concepts and ideas for the viewer to think about, no matter how esoteric or high concept sci-fi they are.
But also I have an inexplicable urge to scream "THE ROBOTS ARE AN ALLEGORY FOR THE WORKING CLASS!!!" at the top of my lungs
I keep hearing about the pluto show and how great it is. I also know the story was concocted by the same guy that made Monster. I can already tell that you enjoy the show, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it so far.
It's basically playing with a lot of the same concepts that Bladerunner 2049 is (right down to the police procedural framing device), but because it has a longer runtime and a larger cast it's able to give it's ideas more time to breath, so the mystery is an actual mystery and the sci-fi gets to be kinda out-there in a good way. It's also not afraid to get political- I dunno if it'll stick the landing yet but yeah there's a very thinly veiled allegory about the Iraq war and Foucault's boomerang here (that's kinda True Detective Season 2-ish?), and the main character being a cop from an allegorical minority worked well enough in
for exploring systemic issues and it works well enough here, although again I'm only halfway thru so I dunno if it'll stick the landing
Ok, finished the show and it didn't stick the landing but I still enjoyed it overall.
Oh wow that was quick.
It's something I always noticed with a lot of Japanese shows I've watched is that it seems like it's really hard to stick the landing regardless of how well they constructed the story over its runtime.
It's only 8 episodes (albeit 1 hr eps) and I had the day off lol
Without spoiling too much, the story does tie all the loose ends up but imo it kinda rushes the ending, and ends up with a kinda non-commital run-of-the-mill politics (especially compared to something like Bladerunner 2049).
Yeah that sounds about right in terms of unsatisfactory wrap-ups. It's not particularly surprising since that's usually how it is with wrap-ups but still leaves a bit of an empty feeling in ya