Oh that's easy. There are plenty of complex integrals or even statistics problems that computers still can't do properly because the steps for proper transformation are unintuitive or contradictory with steps used with simpler integrals and problems.
You will literally run into them if you take a simple Calculus 2 or Stats 2 class, you'll see it on chegg all the time that someone trying to rack up answers for a resume using chatGPT will fuck up the answers. For many of these integrals, their answers are instead hard-programmed into the calculator like Symbolab, so the only reason that the computer can 'do it' is because someone already did it first, it still can't reason from first principles or extrapolate to complex theoretical scenarios.
That said, the ability to complete tasks is not indicative of sentience.
Lol, 'idealist axiom'. These things can't even fucking reason out complex math from first principles. That's not a 'view that humans are special' that is a very physical limitation of this particular neural network set-up.
Sentience is characterized by feeling and sensory awareness, and an ability to have self-awareness of those feelings and that sensory awareness, even as it comes and goes with time.
Edit: Btw computers are way better at most math, particularly arithmetic, than humans. Imo, the first thing a 'sentient computer' would be able to do is reason out these notoriously difficult CS things from first principles and it is extremely telling that that is not in any of the literature or marketing as an example of 'sentience'.
Damn this whole thing of dancing around the question and not actually addressing my points really reminds me of a ChatGPT answer. It would n't surprise me if you were using one.
Lol, 'idealist axiom'. These things can't even fucking reason out complex math from first principles. That's not a 'view that humans are special' that is a very physical limitation of this particular neural network set-up.
If you read it carefully you'd see I said your worldview was idealist, not the AIs.
Sentience is characterized by feeling and sensory awareness
AI can get sensory input and process it.
Can you name one way a human does it that a machine cannot, or are you relying on a gut feeling that when you see something and identify it it's different than when a machine process camera input? Same for any other sense really.
If you can't name one way, then your belief in human exceptionalism is not based in materialism.
I have noticed that. They've been avoiding every argument they don't have any sort of comeback to. I think a ppb or pointing and laughing emote would be fine though.
What the fuck are you talking about. I was indicating that I thought it was absurd that you think my belief system is 'idealist' when I am talking about actual physical limitations of this system that will likely prevent it from ever achieving sentience, as well as would be good indicators of a system that has achieved sentience because it can overcome those limitations.
You are so fucking moronic you might as well be a chat-bot, no wonder you think it's sentient.
It is 'feeling and sensory input and the ability to have self-awareness about that feeling and sensory input' not just straight sensory input. Literally what are you talking about. Machines still can't spontaneously identify new information that is outside of the training set, they can't even identify what should or shouldn't be a part of the training set. Again, that is a job that a human has to do for the machine. The thinking, value feeling and identification has to be done first by a human, which is a self-aware process done by humans. I would be more convinced of the LLM 'being sentient' if when you asked it what the temperature was it would, spontaneously and without previous prompting, say 'The reading at such and such website says it is currently 78 degrees, but I have no real way of knowing that TreadOnMe, the sensors could be malfunctioning or there could be a mistake on the website, the only real way for you to know what the temperature is to go outside and test it for yourself and hope your testing equipment is also not bad. If it is that though, that is what I have been told from such and such website feels like 'a balmy summer day' for humans, so hopefully you enjoy it.'
I don't believe 'humans are exceptional' as I've indicated multiple times, there are plenty of animals that arguably demonstrate sentience, I just don't believe that this particular stock of neural network LLM's demonstrate even the basic level of actual feeling, sensory processing input, or self-awareness to be considered sentient.
I was indicating that I thought it was absurd that you think my belief system is 'idealist' when I am talking about actual physical limitations of this system that will likely prevent it from ever achieving sentience,
Then name what you think would limit sentience in machines, that humans are magically exempt from.
You clearly have a view that something is different, but you just write walls of text avoiding any clear distinction, getting angry and calling me names.
If you had any idea of what would "physically" stop silicon from doing what organic matter can do, you'd name it. And in every post you make, longer than the last, you fail to do that.
Since you can't keep civil or answer a simple question, I'm going to peace out of this convo ✌️
throughout what? I've replied to you exactly once.
and I posted that reply to demonstrate to you and everyone else reading along that your civility fetishism means absolutely fucking nothing here. no is forced to answer you, and no one is required to reply to you with the tone or wording that you demand. shut the fuck up you idealist nerd.
throughout what? I've replied to you exactly once.
First I addressed the behavior of the poster you defended.
Second: Why do you think I emphasized the you in the last comment? Where I'm from it would imply your a different person I'm addressing now.
With that sorted out: Anyone could, but no one can, because there's no reason for faith, so there's nothing to share. This community takes an idealist take, not a materialist one.
I understand what you're saying. Civility doesn't matter because your ideals are solid, but you wouldn't waste the time on defending them. You would waste an equal amount of time writing out immature comments avoiding the point in question though. But that doesn't count, because your being ironic- whereas the coherent comment does count because that's got to take a lot of effort.
It's a good excuse for idealists, because they don't look good when they take it seriously. Materialists tend to humor people with civility because they do convince anyone watching.
Oh that's easy. There are plenty of complex integrals or even statistics problems that computers still can't do properly because the steps for proper transformation are unintuitive or contradictory with steps used with simpler integrals and problems.
You will literally run into them if you take a simple Calculus 2 or Stats 2 class, you'll see it on chegg all the time that someone trying to rack up answers for a resume using chatGPT will fuck up the answers. For many of these integrals, their answers are instead hard-programmed into the calculator like Symbolab, so the only reason that the computer can 'do it' is because someone already did it first, it still can't reason from first principles or extrapolate to complex theoretical scenarios.
That said, the ability to complete tasks is not indicative of sentience.
Sentience is a meaningless word the way most people use it, it's not defined in any specific material way.
You're describing a faith-based view that humans are special, and that conflicts with the materialist view of the world.
If I'm wrong, share your definition of sentience here that isn't just an idealist axiom to make humans feel good.
Lol, 'idealist axiom'. These things can't even fucking reason out complex math from first principles. That's not a 'view that humans are special' that is a very physical limitation of this particular neural network set-up.
Sentience is characterized by feeling and sensory awareness, and an ability to have self-awareness of those feelings and that sensory awareness, even as it comes and goes with time.
Edit: Btw computers are way better at most math, particularly arithmetic, than humans. Imo, the first thing a 'sentient computer' would be able to do is reason out these notoriously difficult CS things from first principles and it is extremely telling that that is not in any of the literature or marketing as an example of 'sentience'.
Damn this whole thing of dancing around the question and not actually addressing my points really reminds me of a ChatGPT answer. It would n't surprise me if you were using one.
If you read it carefully you'd see I said your worldview was idealist, not the AIs.
AI can get sensory input and process it.
Can you name one way a human does it that a machine cannot, or are you relying on a gut feeling that when you see something and identify it it's different than when a machine process camera input? Same for any other sense really.
If you can't name one way, then your belief in human exceptionalism is not based in materialism.
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I've been checking in on this whole thread and this is my all time favourite comment on it, maybe my all time favourite comment on the website.
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I have noticed that. They've been avoiding every argument they don't have any sort of comeback to. I think a ppb or pointing and laughing emote would be fine though.
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What the fuck are you talking about. I was indicating that I thought it was absurd that you think my belief system is 'idealist' when I am talking about actual physical limitations of this system that will likely prevent it from ever achieving sentience, as well as would be good indicators of a system that has achieved sentience because it can overcome those limitations.
You are so fucking moronic you might as well be a chat-bot, no wonder you think it's sentient.
It is 'feeling and sensory input and the ability to have self-awareness about that feeling and sensory input' not just straight sensory input. Literally what are you talking about. Machines still can't spontaneously identify new information that is outside of the training set, they can't even identify what should or shouldn't be a part of the training set. Again, that is a job that a human has to do for the machine. The thinking, value feeling and identification has to be done first by a human, which is a self-aware process done by humans. I would be more convinced of the LLM 'being sentient' if when you asked it what the temperature was it would, spontaneously and without previous prompting, say 'The reading at such and such website says it is currently 78 degrees, but I have no real way of knowing that TreadOnMe, the sensors could be malfunctioning or there could be a mistake on the website, the only real way for you to know what the temperature is to go outside and test it for yourself and hope your testing equipment is also not bad. If it is that though, that is what I have been told from such and such website feels like 'a balmy summer day' for humans, so hopefully you enjoy it.'
I don't believe 'humans are exceptional' as I've indicated multiple times, there are plenty of animals that arguably demonstrate sentience, I just don't believe that this particular stock of neural network LLM's demonstrate even the basic level of actual feeling, sensory processing input, or self-awareness to be considered sentient.
That's a lot of tangents and name calling.
Then name what you think would limit sentience in machines, that humans are magically exempt from.
You clearly have a view that something is different, but you just write walls of text avoiding any clear distinction, getting angry and calling me names.
If you had any idea of what would "physically" stop silicon from doing what organic matter can do, you'd name it. And in every post you make, longer than the last, you fail to do that.
Since you can't keep civil or answer a simple question, I'm going to peace out of this convo ✌️
oh cry harder you fucking dweeb
Can you name a single difference between the two?
Using concrete materialist language, not vague terms or idealist woo.
Failing over and over again to answer a simple, single question doesn't suddenly become badass because you acted like a juvenile throughout it.
throughout what? I've replied to you exactly once.
and I posted that reply to demonstrate to you and everyone else reading along that your civility fetishism means absolutely fucking nothing here. no is forced to answer you, and no one is required to reply to you with the tone or wording that you demand. shut the fuck up you idealist nerd.
First I addressed the behavior of the poster you defended.
Second: Why do you think I emphasized the you in the last comment? Where I'm from it would imply your a different person I'm addressing now.
With that sorted out: Anyone could, but no one can, because there's no reason for faith, so there's nothing to share. This community takes an idealist take, not a materialist one.
I understand what you're saying. Civility doesn't matter because your ideals are solid, but you wouldn't waste the time on defending them. You would waste an equal amount of time writing out immature comments avoiding the point in question though. But that doesn't count, because your being ironic- whereas the coherent comment does count because that's got to take a lot of effort.
It's a good excuse for idealists, because they don't look good when they take it seriously. Materialists tend to humor people with civility because they do convince anyone watching.
Wtf? Do you want to claim that materialists fall for scammers?
Is that how scams work?
You state a belief, a tricky scammer asks you why you believe it, and if you fall for the trick and explain your reasoning then poof you lost money?
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