Link - https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1747323130060697682
They already Community Noted her - Clare Daly is a highly controversial Irish politician who was accused of nepotism, support for dictators like Putin and Assad, causing divide in European parliamentary left, and arguably doesn't represent not just dead Irish ancestors but also majority of living Irish.
Easily the best western country.
not western, nor imperial core
Explain by what logic Cuba would be considered not Western but Ireland would be considered Western?
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The same logic that excludes the Balkans and Russia from being Western.
Russia is north to me
The thing that excludes the balkans and Russia from being western is that they aren't in the western hemisphere.
Something notably distinct from Cuba.
Is Australia in the western hemisphere?
No but I wouldn't argue they're eastern for the same reason that America and england are.
They're incredibly isolated and don't really have any cultural neighbors other than New Zealand which is right on the border of the hemispheres while Cuba is literally within sight of America and surrounded by other western countries with similar culture and practically dead center in the western hemisphere.
I get the point it's a stand in for "imperial core" and "everybody else" but saying they're western for the same reason that countries that are actually in the western hemisphere is a really dumb argument.
You don't seem to understand "western" is just a colloquialism for Americanism and Pan-Europeanism, geography plays only the most superficial of roles in the historical distribution of these cultures, imperialism tends to do funny things with geography
Also, in what possible way is Cuba culturally similar to the United States, and how is Australia culturally isolated from the rest of the Anglosphere? It's the fact it's populated by anglos that makes it a western country, not it's positional coordinates on a giant sphere
Cuba isn't culturally all that similar to the US, but the sense in which you're using "Western" is clearly different to what he means. Cuba is culturally similar to other Caribbean countries, we all share the past as Spanish colonies with imported African slaves and indigenous genocides, then being handed into American Monroe Doctrine hegemony. Similar history to every single Latin American country. When someone says West and means "countries that are closely linked economically, culturally, politically to America and Western Europe" as opposed to imperial core, I think it's fully reasonable that they include Latin America, even when some Latin American countries don't participate in the imperialist projects of the US and its allies.
When you ask the average Joe on the street what "western" means, they think "the countries where rich white people are", it's really that simple, nobody is out there talking about hemispheres or gps coordinates, any other definition is ad hoc, uncommon, and personalized
That sentence literally just describes the entire world
Let's clock how ad hoc this kind of logic is by using a country I'm familiar with; Morocco or the Maghreb: name literally means "the west", close links with America and Western Europe historically, politically, and even culturally; by the definitions used in this thread, it's a western country
See what happens when you don't stick with the obvious conclusion that even your average Long Islander figures out intuitively
your imaginary Long Island schlub exhibits the base layer of 'the West' being, in many cases a simple "us vs. them". but the writers and politicians who made the thing up have had to justify it in more detail, and they've always introduced contradictions. working from the 'intellectual' justifications & calling out the inconsistencies is an important step toward undermining the vulgar team mentality of the schlub
although idk why we're arguing about it here as if we're vested, when we should all agree 'the west' is a liberal term and we have our own terms [core/periphery, imperial/colonial etc]
Poland overlaps the same longitudes as, say, Serbia, so this isn't really a full explanation. But the fact that former Yugoslavia is still isolated and othered from Western Europe means it's culturally and politically distinct. Cuba, while politically distinct from surrounding countries, is culturally very close to other Caribbean countries. So it's kind of a mixed bag, but I still think reasonably the only way to categorize Cuba is as a Western country despite the political difference.
most of europe isn't in the western hemisphere???
ireland being in the european union imo
Thank you - this is the only answer that actually makes sense to me lol
What makes a country Western? I would've thought the fact that they're so geographically close to other countries that are no doubt Western countries, and have a similar history as a former Spanish colony, have a majority Christian population, etc would count to make them a Western country. Obviously they have a very different mode of social organization to every other Western country, but if we're trying to find the best Western country and we exclude all the good ones what's the point?
Westernism has less to do with geography and more to do with ideology and fanatical adherence to white supremacist-coded capitalism
Otherwise, the phrase "Australia is a western country" wouldn't seem so normal despite its geographical ludicrousness
Yes I think if you define it more based on Western bloc vs Eastern bloc lines I'm more inclined to agree. But to me "Western" is more of a cultural label than a political one, so it seemed weird.
Even if you defined it culturally, the "west" would still end at the US/Mexican border, the Polish border, Gibraltar, and the Nauru/Manus Islands
You don't think Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are Western? Or Panama?
Western enclaves sure, but western inherently? Absolutely not
To add to that, Spain also has enclaves in north africa, so clearly you are including PR given you said it ends at Gibraltar, heck like half of Italy and Malta are south of Gibraltar.
I mean, they said the US Mexico border, I think if Mexico isn't included then it's fair enough to say the Caribbean isn't either. Honestly, after giving it more thought, I think they're right. My definition is pretty much ad hoc.
A culture of white supremacy and Liberal Fascist colonialism
The West TM, the inheritor of "the roman empire" is fascist and always has been. There's a reason why USA, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Britain were all obsessed with the Roman Empire and emulated it constantly and believed it to be the pinnacle of history. It's because they're all fascists. That's what it means to be "The West"
no we just had this one, you have to wait longer to have a struggle session on the same topic again.