To be a bit more seriously, I'm not from the US but I'd be very careful. The MAGA movement might very well start rounding up trans people and whoever else they don't like. Something like a "Kristallnacht". They absolutely could turn the US into a fascist dictatorship. I hate the neoliberals too but from a tactical viewpoint you really should vote for Biden.
The U.S. is already a fascist dictatorship. It just has the luxury to have multiple parties of fascists. If trans people were to be rounded up, neither party would be interested in doing anything to stop it. We know this because literal children are regularly sent to privatized behavioral or conversion therapy camps that are essentially prisons, and neither party is very invested in shutting those down. So fuck off with your moralizing. Biden isn't strategic, nor is he vegetables, he's just a different brand of pop.
Yeah calling a man who is enabling a genocide "vegetables" is the most depraved infantilizing thing. How many dead Palestinians are needed for a healthy democracy meal exactly? That shit is pure evil
Hey now, the democrats would absolutely use it as a way to fundraise and get elected. And then... sit on their hands and do half measures because the republicans are so mean and actually control everything! Ahh Lisa Slotkin voted with the fascists but you need to vote for her so the evil republicans don't control the senate! Oh wow, we don't have the senate, we just need more money and votes so we can undo all the damage!
CW to protect innocent comrades from ire entirely directed at the above poster
literally kill yourself, comparing voting for a genocide-enabling, child-caging, wall-building, nazi-arming, abortion-banning rapist who is/was pen pals with Arch-Racist Strom Thurmond to 'eating your vegetables' is probably the most disgusting take i have ever witnessed, even from a natoid in the Great Satan. I will gladly eat any ban for saying this, please kill yourself and kill everyone around you, as many as you can, as soon as you possibly can, for the good of the world. If you understood anything about history, geopolitics, or the basics of logical thinking, you would understand the rage i am feeling right now. I wish you and your loved ones a very disembowelment. Happy Valentine's Day.
When the government starts treating us white people like they have always treated black people I will take comfort in knowing you and I are on the same rotting ship.
The US is currently a fascist dictatorship. Both parties in the US function as a single unit uniparty. Don't forget they repealed abortion rights under a democrat. The US legislator (Congress) is corrupted and captured and their supreme court is not different from Iran with religious fundamentalists that have lifetime appointments with power to review any case law. It literally doesn't matter. The Kristallnacht is coming and no voting will stop it, just like voting never stopped the German Nazi's. Is idea here to just have the Democrats win every election forever?
Hey, Iran’s had and kept abortion and trans rights for half a century, they never legalized money in politics. The US is so bad comparing it to something other than itself or the Nazis minimizes it.
While the GOP is definitely become fascist, the US and the democrats is a neoliberal plutocracy, it's different from fascism (= a belief in inequality based on an mythological and essentialized identity). Say what you want about capitalism but they don't give a shit about your identity as long as they can sell you things or exploit you. Fascists don't like capitalism because it's too egalitarian - they want inequality and classes based on identity not money.
If you're an accelerationist you should also consider what the better tactical choice is to bring about a socialist revolution. Fascism is very stable and difficult to overthrow without the support of the military, and the technology to surveil and control people is much more advanced than in e.g. Nazi Germany. And you didn't have much of a resistance there either.
their supreme court is not different from Iran
I love the comparison to Iran's guardian council. To be fair their model of democracy / theocracy is build around resisting regime change / coup attempts from imperialist influences.
I suggest you literally read anything. You haven't even read easy stuff like Blackshirts and Reds if you really believe that fascists don't like capitalism.
Fascism is capitalism's last line of defense against the threat of revolution. While fascist do manage the economy somewhat differently than liberals they absolutely AREN'T against capitalism.
"They took our jobs" isn't opposition to capitalism it is knee jerk reactionary sentiment. No one who says that actually subscribes to anti capitalist ideology.
You need to go back and read Blackshirts and Reds and learn about how fascism ultimately serves the interests of capital. You clearly lack the knowledge and ideological framework to understand this issue.
That's not opposing capitalism, that's opposing globalization. Also that is the outcry fascists sometimes capitalize from, not a policy. Look at how the fascists went from parroting that right wing populist line, to empowering corporations. Mottos are not ideologies, corporatism is WAY more vital to fascism than complaining about immigrants taking jobs
Please read actual historians and / or theory like the already mentioned Blackshirts and reds. Fascism is definitionally capitalism in decay and the capitalist's violent protection of the remnants against any emerging threats. To suggest that fascists are not capitalists is completely ludicrous.
The entire point of fascism is class collaboration/subordination for the benefit of the capital owners, to suppress labor and stabilize falling profit rates
It's precisely the reason Hitler was backed to the hilt by German industrialists
Brain-dead liberals have always confused certain protectionist measures used by fascist regimes as "anti-capitalist" because many of them have been completely blinkered by the exploded neoclassical conception of capital accumulation, while they ignore the unprecedented privatization campaigns of every fascist regime
Liberals are forced to believe in a fantasy version of capitalism and then stare in disbelief when the fascists turn out to be more efficient capitalists than they ever were
Fascists absolutely want classes based on money. Fascism was devised as the union of labor and capital. Mussolini and the Syndicalists wanted to use national identity to "resolve" class contradictions, not make classes into national identities.
Fascism is an ideology that is practically defined by a constant search for an Other, an outgroup, an underclass it can use as scapegoat. It is literally in a perpetual state of eating its own tail
Genuinely one of the most baffling things I've seen a Lemmyite post here
Even allowing the distinction, the Democrats fuel fascism by funding far right Republican candidates and fear-mongering over immigrants, China, etc. Capitalists will typically side with fascism to defeat socialism because it allows (most of) them to maintain their status. And fear-mongering about foreigners gives them a scapegoat and distracts from domestic problems, while justifying the corrupt military-industrial complex which allows transferring public funds into private hands. The Democrats are 100% fascist enablers.
Hindenburg was representing an institution more like the supreme court, similar to how the liberals on the supreme court in the US are currently doing mental gymnastics to allow an insurrectionist to run for president, he allowed Hitler to grab power. I get the joke but it's actually relevant in another way - failure to oppose fascism by well meaning (or edgy) people.
Never have I seen someone let Hindenburg off so easily. So what you are saying is you should vote to oppose fascism......so that the institution can then let them into power anyways? Hindenburg WON and he still put Hitler in power. So why vote Biden exactly?
No you absolute schmuck. We are not Hindenburg because WE HAVE NO POWER in this system. Like all liberals you are completely allergic to context, which means that while you babble on your mind-numbing cliches like the chat-gpt stooge you probably are, history happens regardless.
My sibling in christ if you let a fascist come to power you are not "well meaning". The fact that you would even say something so silly implies that facisism is as unthreating to you as it was to them. In your failed attempt to defend voting for liberals to "prevent fascism" you explained exactly why voting for liberals will do nothing to prevent fascism just like it failed in Germany.
Hindenburg put Hitler up as a choice for chancellor and then appointed him chancellor.
That’s a little different than what you’re suggesting.
Throughout the history of the Weimar Republic there are many examples of presidents using their emergency powers in big ways.
I think saying that president is a figurehead position with no real power is pretty indefensible. We have well documented examples of presidents wielding lots of power and the specific one we’re talking about famously used his political power to put Hitler next in line.
It’s doubly damning that you’ve brought this up as a defense of voting for Biden when one extremely shallow but nonetheless true reading of the events after Hindenburgs election is “don’t elect senile politicians to office if you want to defeat fascism!”
What make you think that the party who is already rounding up ethnic minorities in camps as we speak would do anything against the Republicans rounding up LGBTQ+ peoples in camps?
I am in the US and this is how can show you, the Republicans will make things worse as fast as they can while they are in power, while the dems will slow down to a much slower pace, but will do nothing to make anything better, they also will not stop anything bad from happening, they just will not activly do anything evil or terrible. A trans friend of mine put it this way, the Dems get you to vote for them by putting a gun to your head and saying they are your only choice.
It gets worse once you find out that the Dems are some of the biggest donners to the far right congresional canidates, because they think they are easier to beat.
At the end of the day the only REAL difference between the 2 is rhetoric, and maybe 2 years max, and I think I am being genorous by saying that we can get 2 years more out of the dems. Both votes will lead to the same facist hell hole, its just what can of paint I want, and how I want it to happen
If you aren't aware then shut the fuck up. The Democrats are more unhinged than they've ever been because even the incredibly milque-toast socdem alternative was beaten with a stick and then paraded around on an apology tour. The train has no brakes, stop telling us that if we change the conductor it will matter.
The Dem's "pied piper" strategy is responsible for Trump's first term. Yeah, sure it "paid off" by ratcheting up the extremism from that party's candidates at every level every cycle, while the empire collapses, guaranteeing they'll eventually ascend to power over us...
Trump is not the only issue, when trump dies there will be some other facist to take his place. and while I see your point, and understand where you are coming from, where I am sitting, the "delay" path is not a significant delay, as I said I see 2 years, and the question I have to ask myself is "Can we develop significant class contiousness or change within the 2 years to make a difrence" and from what I am seeing the answer is no, So my next question is, can I reward the Dems for there reckless behavior, and I also do not know if I can, they are coercing my vote, by the exclusive fact the other side is SO BAD, dispite the fact that materialy they are not much better. Matters get worse when you take into accound that a study out of prinston shows that my vote, or the outcome of all the votes and the want of all americans, does not effect the direction of the country, OR the fact that even though Biden is, almost certanly going to win the majority of the votes cast on election day thanks to the electoral collage it is going to be incredably close.
So really we dont have a harm reduction canidate, we dont have a lesser evil canidate (who may I point out means you are still voting for evil), there is no choice to make, assuming you are picking one of the 2 big ones that is a moral choice. There is no tactical choice, as I had said earlier, the only real difrence between them is retoric. Biden sounds nicer, he is not, but he sounds it.
Hey, we can apply longtermism too (and it won't even be that long, maybe a few decades) and say "That's unfortunately pretty likely no matter the timeline or specifically who gets elected when." Maybe if it happens in 2025-6 instead of 2045-6 there'll be less people around to genocide, and we might get a resolution to it quicker.
The US is certain to become a blatantly authoritarian state down the road, it is completely unsustainable and dependent on militarily destroying other places to launder money to its ruling class, then extracting surplus value from those places in the aftermath. It's currently a heavily obfuscated fascist state, at least to most observers just struggling to get by under its propaganda and the arcane systems it and its collaborators have created.
Oh shut the fuck up
They're both going to put kids in cages and gut healthcare, who do you think you're kidding?
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Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Obama
To be a bit more seriously, I'm not from the US but I'd be very careful. The MAGA movement might very well start rounding up trans people and whoever else they don't like. Something like a "Kristallnacht". They absolutely could turn the US into a fascist dictatorship. I hate the neoliberals too but from a tactical viewpoint you really should vote for Biden.
I’m not voting for a genocide enabler
Do as you're told and eat your vegetables :D
The U.S. is already a fascist dictatorship. It just has the luxury to have multiple parties of fascists. If trans people were to be rounded up, neither party would be interested in doing anything to stop it. We know this because literal children are regularly sent to privatized behavioral or conversion therapy camps that are essentially prisons, and neither party is very invested in shutting those down. So fuck off with your moralizing. Biden isn't strategic, nor is he vegetables, he's just a different brand of pop.
Yeah calling a man who is enabling a genocide "vegetables" is the most depraved infantilizing thing. How many dead Palestinians are needed for a healthy democracy meal exactly? That shit is pure evil
Hey now, the democrats would absolutely use it as a way to fundraise and get elected. And then... sit on their hands and do half measures because the republicans are so mean and actually control everything! Ahh Lisa Slotkin voted with the fascists but you need to vote for her so the evil republicans don't control the senate! Oh wow, we don't have the senate, we just need more money and votes so we can undo all the damage!
CW to protect innocent comrades from ire entirely directed at the above poster
literally kill yourself, comparing voting for a genocide-enabling, child-caging, wall-building, nazi-arming, abortion-banning rapist who is/was pen pals with Arch-Racist Strom Thurmond to 'eating your vegetables' is probably the most disgusting take i have ever witnessed, even from a natoid in the Great Satan. I will gladly eat any ban for saying this, please kill yourself and kill everyone around you, as many as you can, as soon as you possibly can, for the good of the world. If you understood anything about history, geopolitics, or the basics of logical thinking, you would understand the rage i am feeling right now. I wish you and your loved ones a very disembowelment. Happy Valentine's Day.
When the government starts treating us white people like they have always treated black people I will take comfort in knowing you and I are on the same rotting ship.
I live in a vital swing state, I will literally make it a point to spend election day playing video games and eating chips :D :D :D
Vote 3rd party to make libs mad. They're still mad at Ralph Nader after all these years lol.
The democrats will not meaningfully oppose that happening.
The US is currently a fascist dictatorship. Both parties in the US function as a single unit uniparty. Don't forget they repealed abortion rights under a democrat. The US legislator (Congress) is corrupted and captured and their supreme court is not different from Iran with religious fundamentalists that have lifetime appointments with power to review any case law. It literally doesn't matter. The Kristallnacht is coming and no voting will stop it, just like voting never stopped the German Nazi's. Is idea here to just have the Democrats win every election forever?
Hey, Iran’s had and kept abortion and trans rights for half a century, they never legalized money in politics. The US is so bad comparing it to something other than itself or the Nazis minimizes it.
While the GOP is definitely become fascist, the US and the democrats is a neoliberal plutocracy, it's different from fascism (= a belief in inequality based on an mythological and essentialized identity). Say what you want about capitalism but they don't give a shit about your identity as long as they can sell you things or exploit you. Fascists don't like capitalism because it's too egalitarian - they want inequality and classes based on identity not money.
If you're an accelerationist you should also consider what the better tactical choice is to bring about a socialist revolution. Fascism is very stable and difficult to overthrow without the support of the military, and the technology to surveil and control people is much more advanced than in e.g. Nazi Germany. And you didn't have much of a resistance there either.
I love the comparison to Iran's guardian council. To be fair their model of democracy / theocracy is build around resisting regime change / coup attempts from imperialist influences.
ahahahahahahhahahah
aaaaahhahahahahahahahahahahzahahahahahaahahah
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhaahah moron
I suggest you read a book on fascism like this one (excerpts)
I suggest you literally read anything. You haven't even read easy stuff like Blackshirts and Reds if you really believe that fascists don't like capitalism.
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Protecting yourself from competition through monopolization of force is literally what capitalism is all about.
Fascism is capitalism's last line of defense against the threat of revolution. While fascist do manage the economy somewhat differently than liberals they absolutely AREN'T against capitalism.
"They took our jobs" isn't opposition to capitalism it is knee jerk reactionary sentiment. No one who says that actually subscribes to anti capitalist ideology.
You need to go back and read Blackshirts and Reds and learn about how fascism ultimately serves the interests of capital. You clearly lack the knowledge and ideological framework to understand this issue.
That's not opposing capitalism, that's opposing globalization. Also that is the outcry fascists sometimes capitalize from, not a policy. Look at how the fascists went from parroting that right wing populist line, to empowering corporations. Mottos are not ideologies, corporatism is WAY more vital to fascism than complaining about immigrants taking jobs
Please read actual historians and / or theory like the already mentioned Blackshirts and reds. Fascism is definitionally capitalism in decay and the capitalist's violent protection of the remnants against any emerging threats. To suggest that fascists are not capitalists is completely ludicrous.
The entire point of fascism is class collaboration/subordination for the benefit of the capital owners, to suppress labor and stabilize falling profit rates
It's precisely the reason Hitler was backed to the hilt by German industrialists
Brain-dead liberals have always confused certain protectionist measures used by fascist regimes as "anti-capitalist" because many of them have been completely blinkered by the exploded neoclassical conception of capital accumulation, while they ignore the unprecedented privatization campaigns of every fascist regime
Liberals are forced to believe in a fantasy version of capitalism and then stare in disbelief when the fascists turn out to be more efficient capitalists than they ever were
Fascism is capitalism in decay. Your definition is silly and incomplete.
Fascists absolutely want classes based on money. Fascism was devised as the union of labor and capital. Mussolini and the Syndicalists wanted to use national identity to "resolve" class contradictions, not make classes into national identities.
Fascism is an ideology that is practically defined by a constant search for an Other, an outgroup, an underclass it can use as scapegoat. It is literally in a perpetual state of eating its own tail
Genuinely one of the most baffling things I've seen a Lemmyite post here
Even allowing the distinction, the Democrats fuel fascism by funding far right Republican candidates and fear-mongering over immigrants, China, etc. Capitalists will typically side with fascism to defeat socialism because it allows (most of) them to maintain their status. And fear-mongering about foreigners gives them a scapegoat and distracts from domestic problems, while justifying the corrupt military-industrial complex which allows transferring public funds into private hands. The Democrats are 100% fascist enablers.
Wrong.
Fascism is open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital.
Hi
Several US states basically have trans laws that amount to rounding up trans people already, these laws passing within the last year or two
Who's the current sitting president again? What party does he represent?
If only more people had voted for Hindenburg, he would have won the election and Hitler would have never come to power.
Hindenburg was representing an institution more like the supreme court, similar to how the liberals on the supreme court in the US are currently doing mental gymnastics to allow an insurrectionist to run for president, he allowed Hitler to grab power. I get the joke but it's actually relevant in another way - failure to oppose fascism by well meaning (or edgy) people.
Never have I seen someone let Hindenburg off so easily. So what you are saying is you should vote to oppose fascism......so that the institution can then let them into power anyways? Hindenburg WON and he still put Hitler in power. So why vote Biden exactly?
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You don't get to pretend Biden isn't Hindenburg because you said so.
Answer the question you were asked Ego.
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Biden is literally doing genocide. This isn't a choice between fascism and liberalism, it's just respectable fascism and vulgar fascism.
No you absolute schmuck. We are not Hindenburg because WE HAVE NO POWER in this system. Like all liberals you are completely allergic to context, which means that while you babble on your mind-numbing cliches like the chat-gpt stooge you probably are, history happens regardless.
A vote for Biden is not a meaningful opposition to fascism you dipshit.
My sibling in christ if you let a fascist come to power you are not "well meaning". The fact that you would even say something so silly implies that facisism is as unthreating to you as it was to them. In your failed attempt to defend voting for liberals to "prevent fascism" you explained exactly why voting for liberals will do nothing to prevent fascism just like it failed in Germany.
In what way was the President of the Weimar Republic representing an institution more like the Supreme Court?
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Hindenburg put Hitler up as a choice for chancellor and then appointed him chancellor.
That’s a little different than what you’re suggesting.
Throughout the history of the Weimar Republic there are many examples of presidents using their emergency powers in big ways.
I think saying that president is a figurehead position with no real power is pretty indefensible. We have well documented examples of presidents wielding lots of power and the specific one we’re talking about famously used his political power to put Hitler next in line.
It’s doubly damning that you’ve brought this up as a defense of voting for Biden when one extremely shallow but nonetheless true reading of the events after Hindenburgs election is “don’t elect senile politicians to office if you want to defeat fascism!”
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If you were forced to vote between Adolf Hitler and Joseph Goebbels who would you vote for and why?
What make you think that the party who is already rounding up ethnic minorities in camps as we speak would do anything against the Republicans rounding up LGBTQ+ peoples in camps?
I am in the US and this is how can show you, the Republicans will make things worse as fast as they can while they are in power, while the dems will slow down to a much slower pace, but will do nothing to make anything better, they also will not stop anything bad from happening, they just will not activly do anything evil or terrible. A trans friend of mine put it this way, the Dems get you to vote for them by putting a gun to your head and saying they are your only choice.
It gets worse once you find out that the Dems are some of the biggest donners to the far right congresional canidates, because they think they are easier to beat.
At the end of the day the only REAL difference between the 2 is rhetoric, and maybe 2 years max, and I think I am being genorous by saying that we can get 2 years more out of the dems. Both votes will lead to the same facist hell hole, its just what can of paint I want, and how I want it to happen
Removed by mod
If you aren't aware then shut the fuck up. The Democrats are more unhinged than they've ever been because even the incredibly milque-toast socdem alternative was beaten with a stick and then paraded around on an apology tour. The train has no brakes, stop telling us that if we change the conductor it will matter.
The Dem's "pied piper" strategy is responsible for Trump's first term. Yeah, sure it "paid off" by ratcheting up the extremism from that party's candidates at every level every cycle, while the empire collapses, guaranteeing they'll eventually ascend to power over us...
Trump is not the only issue, when trump dies there will be some other facist to take his place. and while I see your point, and understand where you are coming from, where I am sitting, the "delay" path is not a significant delay, as I said I see 2 years, and the question I have to ask myself is "Can we develop significant class contiousness or change within the 2 years to make a difrence" and from what I am seeing the answer is no, So my next question is, can I reward the Dems for there reckless behavior, and I also do not know if I can, they are coercing my vote, by the exclusive fact the other side is SO BAD, dispite the fact that materialy they are not much better. Matters get worse when you take into accound that a study out of prinston shows that my vote, or the outcome of all the votes and the want of all americans, does not effect the direction of the country, OR the fact that even though Biden is, almost certanly going to win the majority of the votes cast on election day thanks to the electoral collage it is going to be incredably close.
So really we dont have a harm reduction canidate, we dont have a lesser evil canidate (who may I point out means you are still voting for evil), there is no choice to make, assuming you are picking one of the 2 big ones that is a moral choice. There is no tactical choice, as I had said earlier, the only real difrence between them is retoric. Biden sounds nicer, he is not, but he sounds it.
Pied piper mostly worked in 2018 and 2020 but decidedly did noooooot work in 2016
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Hey, we can apply longtermism too (and it won't even be that long, maybe a few decades) and say "That's unfortunately pretty likely no matter the timeline or specifically who gets elected when." Maybe if it happens in 2025-6 instead of 2045-6 there'll be less people around to genocide, and we might get a resolution to it quicker.
The US is certain to become a blatantly authoritarian state down the road, it is completely unsustainable and dependent on militarily destroying other places to launder money to its ruling class, then extracting surplus value from those places in the aftermath. It's currently a heavily obfuscated fascist state, at least to most observers just struggling to get by under its propaganda and the arcane systems it and its collaborators have created.
VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO
LMao