[I originally posted this in chapotraphouse, but it was deleted for being “pro-cop” even though that very much wasn’t the case. (I believe PSL was actually involved in organizing the protest if I’m not mistaken.) The mod that deleted it openly broke the sectarian rule too.]
Been seeing a lot of people hating on what the protest marshals did during the pro-Gaza protests at the DNC and I feel they definitely did the right thing. Instigating stuff like going up against the cops under the guise of “revolutionary” action just gets a lot of people arrested and doesn’t accomplish anything.
EDIT: Users who were present at the protests have said, counter to what is claimed in the screenshot, that the protest marshals did NOT call for the police. Thank you for clearing this up, comrades!
I think this really sealed the deal for me. I have been struggling all week internally about not getting out to these protests. Maybe this is the moment. Maybe I should be there. Maybe I can make a difference this time. Maybe this is the one. Yeah I'm tired as hell. Yeah all the other major actions I've done over the years have accomplished absolutely fucking nothing. But maybe this time. This could be important. This could mean something.
Oh, we aren't even getting too close to the fence, because "it's not that kind of action?" Oh the marshals would rather work with the cops than allow a minor escalation? Okay then. So it's an action fully within the rules. Those are historically super effective, when you just walk and yell where nobody can hear you and make no impact at all except some minor footnote in the local paper about how you did the thing. Great job folks really made an impact by completely and utterly following the rules.
I'll save my energy for the next one. This one is clearly meaningless.
Thanks OP for making me feel validated in my decision to stay home from this nonsense
It explains why I haven’t seen any fucking news about them that’s for sure
Like, I specifically seek out clips and interviews and news about these kinds of actions and I haven’t seen shit
"A bunch of people quietly do their thing out of sight" doesn't really bring in a headline
The student encampments got both more attention and more actual concessions and those should’ve been super easy to ignore. This should’ve been impossible.
The student encampments occurred nationwide and lasted months. I would hope a much larger-scale protest would have more of an effect than one march. The student protests were not organized to fight police, either.
What concessions did they get, anyway? Maybe some disinvestment from some schools, but zero major policy changes, and some places got no concessions at all.
No tactic works every time, or even most of the time. Getting arrested or worse is a real cost, and if we're going to ask people to pay it we should carefully examine what it actually accomplishes.
And I went out to some of those and helped out. Those felt like they were impactful and those were definitely protests that were out of bounds. Those are the only ones that get the goods.
Most of the people I've met at the encampments got nothing materially changed and felt like they won when biden dropped out. They still condemn hamas, and now condemn people that don't want to vote for kamala because you're anti-black and homophobic (lots of queer once friends are now happy and PROUD to be pro-genocide fascists in my blue state). I really feel like these imperial core protests especially the ones centering the particularly privledged (new york college students) are there to give an illusion that we're helping so when shaprio gets dropped in favor of walz or in the future when hamas eliminates israel we can say our tactics won out because we somehow weakened the zionist entity by going camping for a few days. IMO the definition of controlled resistance going off of the great exodus of anti-imperialist-curious becoming full blown fascist democrats that's happened since Kamala's became the nominee and the general aura of impermeable american unseriousness that makes so suggesting any actual actions in these encampments labels you a wrecker and got so many people thrown out for daring to suggest we not let zionists roam the encampment
i listened to Democracy Now's coverage of the protest, and they also played recordings of the 1968 anti-Vietnam war protests and the contrast was shocking. I don't know what it is but something in the culture shifted in the last 50 years like there's this dominant anxious affect where we have thousands of kids on the internet getting "radicalized" in their politics but the idea of actually doing something, anything is just too nasty and crass and weird
1968 is honestly what I was expecting this to be like. That’s why I feel so deflated.
1968 was a police riot, so I'm not disappointed it didn't happen this time around
but it's movement building! 3 or 4 of those people are definitely signing up to go through the PSL's rigorous political education program so they can be a perfectly honed tool of
doing more recruitmentthe revolutionary vanguard! not at all like the trots handing out newpapers.Honestly I don't even mind the PSL keeping peaceful protests in most instances. It definitely depends on what's going on, I've fully supported some green actions that PSL have put on. But stopping people from getting up against a fence is absurd
Comparing PSL to trots lol
Deeply unserious.
i know, they're totally different! one is an ineffectual taillist org that captures and redirects class rage and anger at injustice towards book clubs and the other is wait hold on lemme try again
To note, they do happen to be a splinter from a splinter of a Trotskyist party. It's not determinative, but it is a funny coincidence.
Comically unserious, if your critique of a socialist organization is that they're focused on giving people a strong political education and growth of the movement, your critique might not be meaningful
As someone who was there, the "anarchists" seemed more eager just to divert half the march into a wall of cops. Tell me you like kettling without telling me you like kettling.