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Marx agreed that capitalism is very good at rapid economic growth, which is why Lenin implemented the NEP and Deng Xiaoping implemented the liberal reforms. So why abandon that completely for the system like in Cuba or North Korea which are very inefficient and grow slowly?
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Norway, Sweden, Iceland etc are the best places to live on earth. Clearly social democracy has provided the goods. Of course in recent years, due to neoliberalism, those countries are not as great places to live anymore, but they are still the best in the world. So why are you against social democracy if when implemented correctly, it is the best system we have seen? Communism also if not implemented correctly produced horrific results, its all about the implementation. Ideas alone are not enough.
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The vast majority of workers do not want communism. How will you try to establish communism democratically when people dont want it? When people say they want socialism, they usually talk about social programs or nationalization of key industries, rather than implementing Cuba or North Korea economy, no one wants that.
EDIT : I have another question. Are communists willing to work with social-democrats? Obviously neoliberalism and fascism are bigger threats, so wouldnt it make sense to vote for and support social democrats like AOC in USA or Corbyn in UK or Mélenchon in France?
growth bad. the west has too much economy already. best be slimmed. central planning is superior in efficiency.
:guffaw: oh yes love to live in Northern Gulf State or Nazihelpers Inc.. Iceland seems alright tho, and that's surely an accident of history
this is a great bit keep it up lmao
As much as I wish you were right on that last point, the workers, at least here in America, absolutely do not want communism. A huge slice of the workers would die defending capital from other workers.
The problem here isn't that the workers wouldn't like communism, it's that they've been incredibly thoroughly lied to so that they don't even know what communism is as they denounce it. This isn't communism's fault though, this is our propaganda infrastructure's fault.
You said it yourself. Workers do not oppose the idea of communism, they oppose the word communism. You can spend hours describing the idea of communism to a good-intention worker and they'll nod along in agreement, but you say the word communism and they piss their pants. Workers want communism but by any other name.
touché, however there's still a good chunk of the American proletariat with a taste for boot, willing to die to defend the system that allows others to become billionaires, defending it with "b-but they create jobs" and "you're taking away MY freedom to become a billionaire someday". Good point though.
Is there any evidence that central planning is more efficient? How many workers vote for communist parties?
Holistically looking at an economy, absolutely. Moan about socialist economies' growth lagging behind capitalist ones by a few points all you want, they were still providing far, far superior social services at a fraction of the social cost. Stop thinking about economics on the capitalists' terms. Eternal growth is not the goal, providing for actual needs is.
Millions upon millions of people vote for communist parties. Even more voted for them a couple decades ago. Don't confuse crackdown with democracy.
The economy is already centrally planned, just not with any kind of democratic or popular input.
The problem is that you compare countries that were thoroughly destroyed by the west's colonization, sanctions and war to the west. The USSR caught up to the US in around 70 years despite starting as an agrarian country that was barely industrialized.
You should read more on these countries history and struggles, you'll see that communist countries being slower to develop is a myth. On the contrary, once communists get in power through popular support they get shit done pretty fast despite the capitalists around the world trying to stop them.
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Ask South America :party-parenti:
there are generally two types of voters:
the voters who always vote for the same party
the one's who vote for the current government if they and they're family had a good last 3 months and the runner up if they didn't
the issues they're voting on have little effect on their decision either way it's almost random.
central planning achieved huge success, with it's issues being primarily confined to people getting yelled at because their boss screwed up