I do think that commenter absorbed some bad framing they should re-examine, but they are raising a real issue. I think you're assuming some bad faith that isn't there.
All this hand wringing on the right about "society failing young men" or whatever is partially true, not because MEN are suffering in particular, but because everyone is suffering, and men experience that suffering through a masculine framing and masculine expectations.
None of this is that novel, we all know men are told to get a tough manly job, buy a suburban house, are told to relate to their family primarily as a provider and protector, and on and on. None of that really makes any sense anymore, but it's mostly caused by changing economic forces instead of the changing social attitudes that happened at the same time. We all know this, but we're not good at explaining it. (To be fair, a lot of people don't want to hear it.)
If our only response is basically "fuck all that, things sucked back then" we're not addressing the real problem. People kinda know that, people at the time certainly knew that, but at least they were miserable in houses they actually owned.
I know I'm not coming up with anything novel here, but I think it's better to reflect on our approach and refine our thoughts on the issue rather than pounce on people who raise the topic.
I think there's a difference between "the fascists have a point here, actually" and "the fascists are discussing people's actual concerns and experiences." Taking real concerns and proposing cruel non-solutions is kind of their whole deal obviously
And there are a fuck load of young men being left behind right now, and whether or not it's true, a lot of them hear the world telling them it's their own fault for not succeeding. That doesn't lead anywhere good.
Where would 's desired messaging for those boys lead them? Somewhere better?
there's another option, but c/menby or whatever it's called is pretty 🦗 and when people do give advice it's full of bootstraps garbage, even here among comrades. It's hard to have anything original to say about "mens' issues": life under capitalism sucks shit, falling through the cracks sucks shit, i've never felt like explicitly queer spaces are "for" masc-presenting agender folks, and we don't have solidarity groups because of socialization and invisibility.
"left behind" is a little vague but there's half-issues that affect women less because of historical sexism like workplace safety and stopped clock situations like education outcomes. Nobody was invested in keeping me in college or is interested in helping me go back and there is stone nothing for people at the intersection of whatever the fuck happened to me.
Certainly mens' liberation discourse is decades behind the rest of feminism, but that one at least is on men and people society treats as men to sort out. we have a bit of a free start with the "patriarchy hurts men too" writings if more of us would engage with it on that basis.
deleted by creator
I do think that commenter absorbed some bad framing they should re-examine, but they are raising a real issue. I think you're assuming some bad faith that isn't there.
All this hand wringing on the right about "society failing young men" or whatever is partially true, not because MEN are suffering in particular, but because everyone is suffering, and men experience that suffering through a masculine framing and masculine expectations.
None of this is that novel, we all know men are told to get a tough manly job, buy a suburban house, are told to relate to their family primarily as a provider and protector, and on and on. None of that really makes any sense anymore, but it's mostly caused by changing economic forces instead of the changing social attitudes that happened at the same time. We all know this, but we're not good at explaining it. (To be fair, a lot of people don't want to hear it.)
If our only response is basically "fuck all that, things sucked back then" we're not addressing the real problem. People kinda know that, people at the time certainly knew that, but at least they were miserable in houses they actually owned.
I know I'm not coming up with anything novel here, but I think it's better to reflect on our approach and refine our thoughts on the issue rather than pounce on people who raise the topic.
deleted by creator
I meant accusing D3FNC, I don't give a shit either way about some bluecheck lol
deleted by creator
I think there's a difference between "the fascists have a point here, actually" and "the fascists are discussing people's actual concerns and experiences." Taking real concerns and proposing cruel non-solutions is kind of their whole deal obviously
deleted by creator
I believe they proposed "a Uighur re-education camp program for rural America" which tbh is probably on the right track.
deleted by creator
there's another option, but c/menby or whatever it's called is pretty 🦗 and when people do give advice it's full of bootstraps garbage, even here among comrades. It's hard to have anything original to say about "mens' issues": life under capitalism sucks shit, falling through the cracks sucks shit, i've never felt like explicitly queer spaces are "for" masc-presenting agender folks, and we don't have solidarity groups because of socialization and invisibility.
deleted by creator
"left behind" is a little vague but there's half-issues that affect women less because of historical sexism like workplace safety and stopped clock situations like education outcomes. Nobody was invested in keeping me in college or is interested in helping me go back and there is stone nothing for people at the intersection of whatever the fuck happened to me.
Certainly mens' liberation discourse is decades behind the rest of feminism, but that one at least is on men and people society treats as men to sort out. we have a bit of a free start with the "patriarchy hurts men too" writings if more of us would engage with it on that basis.
deleted by creator
I disagree.