Terminal stage treatbrain: "Anyone that ever, ever makes me feel bad about anything done by my predecessors is actually a bad person. I am the Main Character. Me." 
Are these bazinga nazis doing things that much better in the present, or are they seeking to "coup whoever they want, deal with it" as usual? 
The white kids I grew up with celebrated all those things as based.
"I want to pretend history didn't happen or have lasting consequences for others because that might hurt my feelings and challenging the status quo is scary"
If you're worried about kids learning about these things then maybe try improving society somewhat instead of coasting along in the mundane safety that your race, sexuality and gender afford you.
If you were to go digging through the elephants foot that is this guys tweet history you'd be guaranteed to find tweets for each of these points where he argues that actually all of that was good and based.
I hate the whole stupid thing, without class analysis you're only getting half the picture and you get to hear the fighting between braindead chuds and their opportunists and bloodthirsty liberals looking for a mental scapegoat and an excuse to own their two million dollar home when there's people begging on the street.
2015 was great for getting people to understand more of the world around them but it wasnt complete.
I’m not sure whether 2016 was peak SJW derangement or the 2020s, but either way I have never seen any teacher or professor teach white kids go hate themselves lol. 99% of them were intelligent enough to understand if their ancestors were evil, that didn’t make them evil, and the marginalized kids also understood that so white kids were just like anybody else at school.
Also I cannot stand Elon Musk’s typing. I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s like a 10 year old smoking weed and trying to appear thoughtful
Also I cannot stand Elon Musk’s typing. I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s like a 10 year old smoking weed and trying to appear thoughtful
Correct
Concerning
!
Just once I would like someone to understand the difference between 'being responsible' and 'benefitting from'. But that is expecting an actual good faith argument from any of these clowns.
Aren't they usually the ones whining about strawman arguments, too?
Can I hate Elon Musk and also believe we are failing young men and boys today due to the sins of their fathers?
I think it's great that women have gained so much ground, but I don't think leaving anyone behind is good for society in the long run.
And there are a fuck load of young men being left behind right now, and whether or not it's true, a lot of them hear the world telling them it's their own fault for not succeeding. That doesn't lead anywhere good.
Am I wrong? I see this all the time, women leave for the city, get an education but the men just stagnate, stew, and make bad decisions because their cultural world view is outdated. We need a Uighur re-education camp program for rural America badly.
Can I hate Elon Musk and also believe we are failing young men and boys today due to the sins of their fathers?
It isn't even a broken clock moment here; the implied suggestion from
according to the rest of his professed beliefs on social media is that the answer to your concern is to encourage (affluent cishet white) boys to have an artifically inflated sense of self-superiority and by extension be the most smug and insufferable edgy bigoted assholes possible for the sake of being "based."I think it's great that women have gained so much ground, but I don't think leaving anyone behind is good for society in the long run.
Who the fuck in feminist circles that has any actual following or meaningful contribution at all says "nyehehehe, the men, the enemy team, are hurting which means my team is winning" or are you conjuring that perspective from some other source that is pretending to understand feminism?
And there are a fuck load of young men being left behind right now, and whether or not it's true, a lot of them hear the world telling them it's their own fault for not succeeding. That doesn't lead anywhere good.
Where would
's desired messaging for those boys lead them? Somewhere better? 
Am I wrong?
Categorically, here, especially considering you're going to bat for a redpill-flavored "what about the menz" zero-sum argument (that implies that women are in a better overall position than men are and need to somehow concede power they don't actually have) that'd fit right in on front page Reddit, yes you are wrong.
I do think that commenter absorbed some bad framing they should re-examine, but they are raising a real issue. I think you're assuming some bad faith that isn't there.
All this hand wringing on the right about "society failing young men" or whatever is partially true, not because MEN are suffering in particular, but because everyone is suffering, and men experience that suffering through a masculine framing and masculine expectations.
None of this is that novel, we all know men are told to get a tough manly job, buy a suburban house, are told to relate to their family primarily as a provider and protector, and on and on. None of that really makes any sense anymore, but it's mostly caused by changing economic forces instead of the changing social attitudes that happened at the same time. We all know this, but we're not good at explaining it. (To be fair, a lot of people don't want to hear it.)
If our only response is basically "fuck all that, things sucked back then" we're not addressing the real problem. People kinda know that, people at the time certainly knew that, but at least they were miserable in houses they actually owned.
I know I'm not coming up with anything novel here, but I think it's better to reflect on our approach and refine our thoughts on the issue rather than pounce on people who raise the topic.
I think you're assuming some bad faith that isn't there.
Is it really bad faith when the source of that reply was
between a cryptobro and a billionaire apartheid prince?It's like when
claimed that the answer to school shootings should be to provide government issued "girlfriends" to potential school shooters. I can and have mocked that perspective and it wasn't automatically "bad faith" dismissal about some boys being sexually frustrated. The source of the take was radioactive, and saying "actually there is still a problem what do we do" implies that the radioactive source had some valid solution to begin with. It didn't.Since you accused me of "bad faith," what solution is implied, let alone suggested, from the cryptobro or the apartheid prince in this discussion?
I meant accusing D3FNC, I don't give a shit either way about some bluecheck lol
I said that the apparent source of their concern (and the context of bringing it up in this thread) was questionable.
Like the "government issued waifus for potential school shooters"
example I already provided, saying "the fascists have a point here, actually" contaminates whatever point could otherwise have otherwise been made in another thread, because the implication is that the fascists had a valid proposal to begin with regarding whatever the issue was.I think there's a difference between "the fascists have a point here, actually" and "the fascists are discussing people's actual concerns and experiences." Taking real concerns and proposing cruel non-solutions is kind of their whole deal obviously
Nothing was proposed as far as I could tell, by that poster or for that matter the two fascists tweeting back and forth, except maybe "the children of white people should not know about what their ancestors did" which is pretty sus.
I believe they proposed "a Uighur re-education camp program for rural America" which tbh is probably on the right track.
And there are a fuck load of young men being left behind right now, and whether or not it's true, a lot of them hear the world telling them it's their own fault for not succeeding. That doesn't lead anywhere good.
Where would
's desired messaging for those boys lead them? Somewhere better? there's another option, but c/menby or whatever it's called is pretty 🦗 and when people do give advice it's full of bootstraps garbage, even here among comrades. It's hard to have anything original to say about "mens' issues": life under capitalism sucks shit, falling through the cracks sucks shit, i've never felt like explicitly queer spaces are "for" masc-presenting agender folks, and we don't have solidarity groups because of socialization and invisibility.
There are issues, yes. I don't have easy answers for them. I do disagree strongly with the "women are doing better and that's good but men are being 'left behind'" take which sounds a lot like a veiled right wing talking point.
"left behind" is a little vague but there's half-issues that affect women less because of historical sexism like workplace safety and stopped clock situations like education outcomes. Nobody was invested in keeping me in college or is interested in helping me go back and there is stone nothing for people at the intersection of whatever the fuck happened to me.
Certainly mens' liberation discourse is decades behind the rest of feminism, but that one at least is on men and people society treats as men to sort out. we have a bit of a free start with the "patriarchy hurts men too" writings if more of us would engage with it on that basis.
No arguments with you there.
My take is that "patriarchy don't real because me and mine feel disadvantaged, where are my patriarchy perks" plays into chud hands while "patriarchy fucks men over too and men on top of it receive most of the benefits apart from the privilege of punching down" has more legs.
you may be interested in the youtuber FD Signifier.
this post is also perhaps not the best time and place for those concerns but it's better than doing it when women are trying to have a conversation about feminism.
I have never heard a solution for the problem of "male loneliness" that doesn't come back to expecting women to fall on a sword to correct it. That's what it ends up boiling back down to every fucking time. I'm trying to not be hostile but tbh I have no patience for this framing of this issue.
It's not a matter of male loneliness, it's a matter of loneliness in general due to capitalism. Men's loneliness specifically just gets focused on and handwrung about, by people from
to 
to the point that everyone else's loneliness isn't acknowledged and it's seen as a uniquely male issue. And there's a reason for that which goes back to my first paragraph.And there are a fuck load of young men being left behind right now, and whether or not it's true, a lot of them hear the world telling them it's their own fault for not succeeding. That doesn't lead anywhere good.
You're right, but victim blaming is something straight out of Cap 101's Bible. Pro-cap prop has been cooing at us Mayo Men that all those complaints we've been hearing from PoC is just that, sour grapes. That our accomplishments and place in the social strata are our own doing. That privelege didn't get very far man, so it's a hard sell for struggling folks to hear how good they have it.
We have been somewhat comfortable in our place at the top of the bottom. Now that the snake's bite has reached us we are finally feeling a bit of what our brown brothers have been talking about. I've spoken to a few of my cracker buddies very bitter at being called 'priveleged' when they are struggling. Privelege means something different to them, they don't get that it just means not having institutional racism directed towards them. They don't understand the concept.
I think it's not that weird that they are feeling left behind, they're just new to this particular feature of capitalism, becoming the bugaboo the bougies use to turn us all against each other and redirecting blame away from their needing to be eaten, right away
We are not failing these men, they just don't understand that the let down they experience are the consequences of capitalism and NOT the fact that they are losing their privileges over women and minorities. Because of their lack of class consciousness they are unable to locate the true source of their hardship and so attribute it to the ongoing identity politics push from the liberal "left".
I'm sorry but don't expect me to feel empathy for people who regularly call for the genocide of all non-whites "as a joke". I grew up with these people, all they need to do is touch grass and stop using :reddit:, there is no great barrier other than poor socialization from reactionary online communities. I have tried to help these people in the past, they do not want help and they would rather slowly die of radiation poisoning in a hole in the ground than stop being insufferable edgelord reactionaries.
this perspective is rooted in not understanding simple things. some people may take feminism to mean "men are bad", but that's an extremely reductive and incorrect catch phrase. as you note, the patriarchy does harm men in some ways, but if you can't get past this vibes based analysis you aren't going to get anywhere with it. especially when you consider the various threats to basic bodily autonomy that women face today, your conclusions are on pretty shaky ground.
I don't have anything to back this take up with exactly, besides working in a teaching environment, but I think most of the concerns liberals pose about "reeducation" are kinda not possible. In an educational environment you're just basically telling people things. You can't change someone so easily as that.
You can show them that the basis of their ideas is false, you can teach them new things, but when it comes to unhinged anti wokeness or whatever those kind of brain worms are a network effect and you couldn't individualize a reeducation camp to implant them.
When it comes to the shitty things Americans like myself learned in school like how (insert group of people) were savages until we taught them how to think good or whatever, that's just hooking into existing brain worms.
So my takeaway is we should stop fearing the reeducation because it can't hurt it can only help.
This is always a tricky one. I think there's a line between understanding/acknowledging white male privilege and understanding that the majority of white men in the US also have shitty lives. I think sometimes the left goes a bit over the top with attitudes towards privilege, but that's also because awareness among the privileged is often low.
It's an easy way to push young white men away from a cause. Nobody wants to continually hear that they have it easy when they're experiencing class struggle like the rest of us. I know people who are wary of white men because of their past experiences, which is valid, but it is a form of prejudice. I know we like to believe that reverse racism isn't a thing, but it is. It just isn't as important or impactful as racism towards oppressed communities. It still feels shitty to be held to a different standard to no fault of your own.
We cannot and should not abandon rhetoric on privilege, but it's worth approaching it from a point of solidarity. It's clear the left is losing a lot of people that should be allies because they feel alienated by all of this.
Same people that do everything in their power to fabricate atrocity propaganda for the other races and then use it to justify oppressing them? lmao every accusation an admission of guilt.
The worst thing in the world you can be is a minority
The only reason Elon hasn't posted the 14 words is that he's a rank coward before he's a committed fascist.
No seriously, what is it with right wing propaganda and the imagery of sobbing children? There's some kind of weird fetishization of suffering going on, and its not just this post but in a lot of antivax/white genocide shit.
No seriously, what is it with right wing propaganda and the imagery of sobbing children?
I think there's layers to it, from their own emotional cores being childlike bullies themselves to them outright enjoying the sight of children hurt.
