Not sure why I'm jumping in here, but you are being completely incoherent. You're saying people are saying things when they have said nothing of the kind. You are making weird moralistic arguments that not only have no material basis but make no sense.
I'm not the person you were responding to, but ok, let's do as you say, do the same with incest. Incest is not wrong because it is "against nature" (what does that even mean? Incest happens as part of the natural world and it is well-documented in humans as well as other species, even humans' closest genetic relatives). Incest is only wrong because of the harm it does to people being sexually exploited due to an almost inevitable power dynamic or because of the harm it does via potential genetic defects if there are offspring. It is not wrong because it seems "ew gross, sex with family yuck!"
Its wrong because you are having sexual intercourse with an animal, which is something against nature and just wrong in literally every way.
So you're really doing the tautology that "it's wrong because it's just wrong" argument? What is "nature" and how is this "against it"? "Ew, gross, that's just wrong!" may be a valid reaction but it's not engaging the question of why, and it's not addressing any of the arguments that have been made, but it's like you keep pretending that you are engaging the question and addressing what's been said. It's not wrong to have a gut reaction and your gut reaction may not even be wrong, but don't pretend that the problem is other user's "ideological dung" or some batshit reasoning on their part.
Its one of the true taboos of humanity, you don't do it.
People do do it, once again, it's been documented in countless human societies. If it IS wrong (and I agree that it is wrong) it is wrong for the same reasons that artificial insemination of animals to produce more of them as food for humans is also wrong. The only way this would not be the case is by vague, meaningless phrases like "against nature" and "just wrong." Artificial insemination, (which is forced pregnancy and (cw) the r-word) is much more "against nature" than members of different species having sex with each other, which once again, happens quite a bit in nonhuman animals and there is something like 3% and 8% of women and men, respectively, who have had sexual interaction with animals, including penetrative sex.
I swear I thought there were people with more than just vibes based politics here, but this shows that I will have to block a few fools in order to experience the site without crawling through ideological dung.
You are the one going off vibes-based reasoning here, which has been made very clear repeatedly by almost everyone who has responded to you. Block away, I have to do the same at times. But you're not doing so because the people you're blocking have bad arguments or are "vibes-based" or are even ideological (at least beyond the way that everything is ideological). You're doing so because their valid arguments are putting into question the things you have always casually accepted as normal and ok.
As for crawling through ideological dung, everyone needs to be extra careful when they think they smell other's. Some people don't recognize when they're just actually just smelling their own.
incest is bad and wrong because of power dynamics and grooming done to people. reproductive incest is also bad because of the genetics stuff but incest taboo predates that and historical people had a bunch of weird ideas about bloodlines which gave us the hapsburg chin.
the vibe against incest comes from the westermarck effect and social norms, but e.g. first cousin pairings are iirc genetically safe if you don't do several generations of them and such marriages are legal in a lot of places.
additionally, once in a while siblings separated at birth accidentally end up in incestuous relationships without knowing. there was a case in germany maybe 10-15 years ago and i've forgotten most of the details but i think they got sterilized after finding out and were allowed to stay together since there was no power imbalance and no risk of genetic whatever.
![[CW: bestiality] Professional "moral philosopher" ponders whether it's OK to sexually assault animals, featuring AI art](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/f26b2dce-7254-4537-acd1-5de623b591e0.png){kind=link}
"against nature" and "just wrong" is not vibes based, got it
Removed by mod
Not sure why I'm jumping in here, but you are being completely incoherent. You're saying people are saying things when they have said nothing of the kind. You are making weird moralistic arguments that not only have no material basis but make no sense.
I'm not the person you were responding to, but ok, let's do as you say, do the same with incest. Incest is not wrong because it is "against nature" (what does that even mean? Incest happens as part of the natural world and it is well-documented in humans as well as other species, even humans' closest genetic relatives). Incest is only wrong because of the harm it does to people being sexually exploited due to an almost inevitable power dynamic or because of the harm it does via potential genetic defects if there are offspring. It is not wrong because it seems "ew gross, sex with family yuck!"
So you're really doing the tautology that "it's wrong because it's just wrong" argument? What is "nature" and how is this "against it"? "Ew, gross, that's just wrong!" may be a valid reaction but it's not engaging the question of why, and it's not addressing any of the arguments that have been made, but it's like you keep pretending that you are engaging the question and addressing what's been said. It's not wrong to have a gut reaction and your gut reaction may not even be wrong, but don't pretend that the problem is other user's "ideological dung" or some batshit reasoning on their part.
People do do it, once again, it's been documented in countless human societies. If it IS wrong (and I agree that it is wrong) it is wrong for the same reasons that artificial insemination of animals to produce more of them as food for humans is also wrong. The only way this would not be the case is by vague, meaningless phrases like "against nature" and "just wrong." Artificial insemination, (which is forced pregnancy and (cw) the r-word) is much more "against nature" than members of different species having sex with each other, which once again, happens quite a bit in nonhuman animals and there is something like 3% and 8% of women and men, respectively, who have had sexual interaction with animals, including penetrative sex.
You are the one going off vibes-based reasoning here, which has been made very clear repeatedly by almost everyone who has responded to you. Block away, I have to do the same at times. But you're not doing so because the people you're blocking have bad arguments or are "vibes-based" or are even ideological (at least beyond the way that everything is ideological). You're doing so because their valid arguments are putting into question the things you have always casually accepted as normal and ok.
As for crawling through ideological dung, everyone needs to be extra careful when they think they smell other's. Some people don't recognize when they're just actually just smelling their own.
incest is bad and wrong because of power dynamics and grooming done to people. reproductive incest is also bad because of the genetics stuff but incest taboo predates that and historical people had a bunch of weird ideas about bloodlines which gave us the hapsburg chin.
the vibe against incest comes from the westermarck effect and social norms, but e.g. first cousin pairings are iirc genetically safe if you don't do several generations of them and such marriages are legal in a lot of places.
additionally, once in a while siblings separated at birth accidentally end up in incestuous relationships without knowing. there was a case in germany maybe 10-15 years ago and i've forgotten most of the details but i think they got sterilized after finding out and were allowed to stay together since there was no power imbalance and no risk of genetic whatever.