If someone posted a critique of leftist discourse on any other form of exclusion and people were going "Trans people are okay, but..." or "Veganism is fine, but..." people would lose their shit and mods would be doing mass purges.
Instead, it's religious people, and you're fine with people saying "Yeah, but irrelevant point about religion" or "It's okay you think that, but keep it to yourself."
It's a refusal to engage with the critique and an instinctive desire to redirect attention.
I'm sorry, have trans people or vegans used their identity to oppress for thousands of years?
Religious people are fine, but if you say you are one, within the context of my country the first thing i'm going to think is that you must be VERY right wing.
Oh no, how evil of me to think about the Catholic Church, the Opus Dei, El Yunque or La Conferencia Episcopal because people were talking about religion!!
Maybe you should also understand why most communist movements in Europe, Russia or China have largely been secular.
Yes. It is bigoted and evil to immediately resort to attacks on your assumptions of other people's beliefs when told to treat your comrades with respect.
Meanwhile you go to Afghanistan and tell them that the fundamentalists propped up by the west are as valid as communists. Deal? I mean, it's not like differents religions in different countries requiere different approaches instead of blanket statements like "religion good" or "religion bad".
Yes, you need to self crit if you're generalizing this much. Yes, you need to self crit if you can't engage with people in good faith. Yes, you need to self crit if you think all religious people are right-wing Christians.
You don't solve bigotry by being exclusionary.
If your past trauma really prevents you from positively engaging with other human beings, you need to seek out a therapist.
Dude I live in a 90% catholic country, do you really want me to start on how much brainrot catholicism caused to people in my country? Do you want me to explain in detail in various ways how LGBT people and women get fucked by backwards catholic dogma being the prevalent way of thinking about social issues like that?
Tbh most of those 90% aren't actively religious, it's more of a cultural thing than true belief. Church on Christmas and Easter and then forget about it till next year.
But the ones that are devout (I'd guess around 10%) cause a whole lot of damage under the banner of catholicism so the rest of the 90% kinda goes along with it.
I'm just really skeptical of actively religious people, they tend to be really fucking nasty about it in my experience and I don't want to pretend they're not nasty.
No, not really.
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This is called dialectics
Look at the responses to this post. Someone says to be accepting of religious comrades and everyone's dismissive, assuming bad faith, or adding buts.
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If someone posted a critique of leftist discourse on any other form of exclusion and people were going "Trans people are okay, but..." or "Veganism is fine, but..." people would lose their shit and mods would be doing mass purges.
Instead, it's religious people, and you're fine with people saying "Yeah, but irrelevant point about religion" or "It's okay you think that, but keep it to yourself."
It's a refusal to engage with the critique and an instinctive desire to redirect attention.
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It's a fucking analogy, but if you want to see disingenuous word substitution, take a look at this:
Who mentioned Christianity? Who mentioned "The West"?
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Who said anything about dominant religions?
You're critique is generalizations that don't apply to individuals. It's not worthy of a response.
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Nice word substitution.
Yeah, I'm sure dismissing religious minorities will have no impact on the ability of Leftist movements to grow and seize power. None at all
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I'm sorry, have trans people or vegans used their identity to oppress for thousands of years?
Religious people are fine, but if you say you are one, within the context of my country the first thing i'm going to think is that you must be VERY right wing.
Please self crit.
If you can't think beyond the stereotypes within your national borders, you're the problem.
Oh no, how evil of me to think about the Catholic Church, the Opus Dei, El Yunque or La Conferencia Episcopal because people were talking about religion!!
Maybe you should also understand why most communist movements in Europe, Russia or China have largely been secular.
Yes. It is bigoted and evil to immediately resort to attacks on your assumptions of other people's beliefs when told to treat your comrades with respect.
And seriously, how Eurocentric can you get?
Oh, you want to stop my eurocentrism? ok i will.
Meanwhile you go to Afghanistan and tell them that the fundamentalists propped up by the west are as valid as communists. Deal? I mean, it's not like differents religions in different countries requiere different approaches instead of blanket statements like "religion good" or "religion bad".
Most would say more.
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No. One. Said. Anything. About Christianity.
Yes, you need to self crit if you're generalizing this much. Yes, you need to self crit if you can't engage with people in good faith. Yes, you need to self crit if you think all religious people are right-wing Christians.
You don't solve bigotry by being exclusionary.
If your past trauma really prevents you from positively engaging with other human beings, you need to seek out a therapist.
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No one said North America. No one said you're home town. No one said White people. No one said Christianity.
This is about the place of religious leftists in the leftist movement.
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Someone is telling you to tolerate other people in your movement. They're promoting inclusivity. That's all this thread is about.
If you don't want to address the issue, that's fine. If you want to derail the discussion, you're being reactionary.
Trans people don't want to ban abortions though
vegans do want to ban muh burgers tho.
St. Burger Church.
Now that's just 100% bigotry.
Dude I live in a 90% catholic country, do you really want me to start on how much brainrot catholicism caused to people in my country? Do you want me to explain in detail in various ways how LGBT people and women get fucked by backwards catholic dogma being the prevalent way of thinking about social issues like that?
Why, yes. I expect you to engage with what's actually being said.
Starting with the fact that excluding religious people immediately locks out over 90% of the population from your leftist movement.
Tbh most of those 90% aren't actively religious, it's more of a cultural thing than true belief. Church on Christmas and Easter and then forget about it till next year.
But the ones that are devout (I'd guess around 10%) cause a whole lot of damage under the banner of catholicism so the rest of the 90% kinda goes along with it.
I'm just really skeptical of actively religious people, they tend to be really fucking nasty about it in my experience and I don't want to pretend they're not nasty.
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What does that have to do with accepting religious people into leftist movements? Absolutely nothing.
If a person that claims to be a devout catholic comes to me and says "good day fellow comrade" you bet your ass I'm gonna be giving him the side-eye.
I know there are chill religions but some are just plain fucking shit, like catholicism.
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No, they're not. They're beliefs, groups, identities. This isn't about institutions. It's about people.
Someone is asking you to be nice to other people and you feel the need to attack their belief systems completely unprompted.
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This isn't one of those cases. Literally no one asked.
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