Hold the fuck on, this person has a degree in philosophy?
People in the imperial core study philosophy and somehow don't read Marx? How the fuck can they understand anything of 20 century philophy let alone history without it?
Good lord.
Also, you don't become leftist becaus of some ultra nerd shit you read trying to be edgy, you become a leftist out of spite of this fucking world after reading a teaspoon of history or just watching the homeless walking in the street whule there is a fucking TV show about superyachts in the background.
In many curriculums, he's not mentioned at all. I took a class on political theory and he wasn't mentioned once. I took another on European history and he was mentioned twice, once during the industrial revolution when the proffessor said Marx was wrong because thwre were factory managers, and again with the October Revolution. He was briefly mentioned in an intro to sociology course by my professor, but we spent significantly more time on Weber. He's been systematically torn out of curricula.
Edit: I legitimately think it was wiped per the University's orders too because the sociology professor was involved in DSA. Likewise in an international relations course, my professor had a May 1968 sticker on his laptop. He mentioned Lenin and Imperialism once and then continued on like it had never been said. I did see a sociology adjunct tell some students (not his) to read the Manifesoto though.
I remember my Intro to Political Science class literally taught that "socialism is when the government does stuff, communism is when it does a lot" meme as true.
I think lib history professors love Weber. It’s like Marx minus Marx if that makes sense—examining the world (or at least Europe in the last few centuries...) economically but also through this mystical thing called “culture” which arises from nothing and cannot be resisted.
I had a history professor in college I loved as a lib. He was fond of Weber and Israel (although he never talked about Israel because I think he knew how gauche it looked). I took several classes with him and we got on well together but he screwed me on my final evaluation because (I believe) I publicly supported BDS. Many years later he posted a photo of himself standing within a few feet of Elizabeth Warren.
That's depressing. Also that Weber thing talking about culture sounds like some shit pulled out from some "right wing theorist" spewing bullshit about the superior culture etx
Yesterday I was listening to the Know Your Enemy podcast episode on Blue Collar Conservatives which features an interview with two former blue collar conservatives. So much of what they said about their youths (particularly an emphasis on self-help books) reminded me of my own youth, even though I grew up in a lib house. It can sometimes be difficult to disentangle liberalism from conservatism.
difficult to disentangle liberalism from conservatism.
Oh, why would that be, huh?
Like really, the only clear differences are their treatment of brown, LGBT and non-christian people. All the rest is basically "murican civil religion" and McCarthyism with slightly different levels of zealotry but the lines are very blurred.
There’s seemingly a very weird division between what’s studied within and without the Anglosphere. Students on “the continent” study Freud, Lacan, Marx, and Hegel, but you will only hear these characters mentioned with contempt (if at all) in Amurka. We’re stuck instead with Plato, Foucault, and George Orwell lol.
It's super dependent on the university. In my (pretty high ranked) US university, our required contemporary civilizations class required reading Marx, and there was at least one class on socialism in some department every semester. During my time there I took a history of european radicalism/socialism class, a history of cold war cybernetics (of which a large part was Marxist debates about it in the USSR), and a Hegel class. I know political economy was also offered and required reading Marx's critiques of political economy, Next semester a Marxism In Germany and Russia class is being offered.
Created a throwaway just to reply to this lol I study Law at a prestigious (private) university in Brazil and we haven't had any Marx pretty much, professors in general will even avoid talking about Pachukanis. Even in Economics or Sociology classes we weren't assigned any Marxist texts, which is just surreal. There was one very based professor which gave us a textbook that used Pachukanis' General Theory of Law, but that was pretty much it so far. Other than that professors will, at most, mention Marx or Marxist thought en passant. I'm pretty sure it's orders from up top, like in @dimmer06's case.
no, not really. they tried to "purge" schoolteachers who were "indoctrinating" students but not even that went far. the vast majority of prestigious universities in Brazil are public and run by the federal government, so Bolsonaro tried to defund them and he keeps appointing ghoulish deans to run the universities, but besides that he hasn't been able to do much besides scattered actions.
don't get me wrong, good quality education, especially public university education, is under siege. but this isn't a recent development, it's something that liberal governments have been trying to do away with for a while, being pressured by private education conglomerates like Cogna or Yduqs. most academics aren't in danger of being arrested or harmed though, the only thing that is at risk is their jobs if the private sector succeeds in abolishing public universities.
People in the imperial core study philosophy and somehow don’t read Marx?
People don't study Marx precisely because they live in the imperial core.
You get sold the story of the inherent subversibility of theory and the continuous process of recuperation, but those things shockingly enough have limits and are sold mostly to demoralize you. People that argue for this stuff "unironically" and seem to not care they're on the losing end of the "ideas war" get pushback precisely BECAUSE they live in the imperial core and know the emperor has no clothes. The empire knows that all that's needed is for enough people to keep pushing this direction to topple the card castle.
Imperial core here with undergrad degree. I read a bunch of Marx.
But not in philosophy or Poli sci classes lol. In German class. It was pretty great.
PS Freud is much less pretentious in German. He just says, "the it" or "it" while English language academics have to get up their own asses and make it Latin as "the id".
One of my degrees is in a liberal art type thing and mention of Marx was exceedingly rare, most of the time only in the context of Marxism being one particular way you can choose to analyze culture, but it's better to not be stuck with any one particular analysis, which seemed to be the whole concept of "critical theory." I never heard it referred to as critical theory. It was just the assumed, standard sort of viewpoint.
I'm not a Marx fundamentalist, I have no idea what did he said. But friends from highschool that choose the last years specialization on "social sciences" (ie the people that later studied law, pedagogy, psychology, etc) had to read Das Kapital. In fucking highschool man. Then in college he was mentioned several times in very different subjects.
Yeah, I grew up in the American south, so my high school experience was more like "Evolution is probably incorrect also you shouldn't be gay or Muslim"
Doubt they had to read Das Kapital in high school, but they probably had to learn some stuff about it. It's more or less the same here. Even in economics departments there's some Marxists but in sociology, political science etc they are ubiquitous. Complete aversion to anything Marx related is an anglo thing.
Hold the fuck on, this person has a degree in philosophy?
People in the imperial core study philosophy and somehow don't read Marx? How the fuck can they understand anything of 20 century philophy let alone history without it?
Good lord.
Also, you don't become leftist becaus of some ultra nerd shit you read trying to be edgy, you become a leftist out of spite of this fucking world after reading a teaspoon of history or just watching the homeless walking in the street whule there is a fucking TV show about superyachts in the background.
In many curriculums, he's not mentioned at all. I took a class on political theory and he wasn't mentioned once. I took another on European history and he was mentioned twice, once during the industrial revolution when the proffessor said Marx was wrong because thwre were factory managers, and again with the October Revolution. He was briefly mentioned in an intro to sociology course by my professor, but we spent significantly more time on Weber. He's been systematically torn out of curricula.
Edit: I legitimately think it was wiped per the University's orders too because the sociology professor was involved in DSA. Likewise in an international relations course, my professor had a May 1968 sticker on his laptop. He mentioned Lenin and Imperialism once and then continued on like it had never been said. I did see a sociology adjunct tell some students (not his) to read the Manifesoto though.
I remember my Intro to Political Science class literally taught that "socialism is when the government does stuff, communism is when it does a lot" meme as true.
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I think lib history professors love Weber. It’s like Marx minus Marx if that makes sense—examining the world (or at least Europe in the last few centuries...) economically but also through this mystical thing called “culture” which arises from nothing and cannot be resisted.
I had a history professor in college I loved as a lib. He was fond of Weber and Israel (although he never talked about Israel because I think he knew how gauche it looked). I took several classes with him and we got on well together but he screwed me on my final evaluation because (I believe) I publicly supported BDS. Many years later he posted a photo of himself standing within a few feet of Elizabeth Warren.
That's depressing. Also that Weber thing talking about culture sounds like some shit pulled out from some "right wing theorist" spewing bullshit about the superior culture etx
Yesterday I was listening to the Know Your Enemy podcast episode on Blue Collar Conservatives which features an interview with two former blue collar conservatives. So much of what they said about their youths (particularly an emphasis on self-help books) reminded me of my own youth, even though I grew up in a lib house. It can sometimes be difficult to disentangle liberalism from conservatism.
Oh, why would that be, huh?
Like really, the only clear differences are their treatment of brown, LGBT and non-christian people. All the rest is basically "murican civil religion" and McCarthyism with slightly different levels of zealotry but the lines are very blurred.
It’s slow polite fascism versus fast impolite fascism.
Libs however think that communists and fascists are the same.
Fascists think that libs and communists are also the same.
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#JustAngloThings
In most of Europe they still read Marx a lot.
There’s seemingly a very weird division between what’s studied within and without the Anglosphere. Students on “the continent” study Freud, Lacan, Marx, and Hegel, but you will only hear these characters mentioned with contempt (if at all) in Amurka. We’re stuck instead with Plato, Foucault, and George Orwell lol.
It's super dependent on the university. In my (pretty high ranked) US university, our required contemporary civilizations class required reading Marx, and there was at least one class on socialism in some department every semester. During my time there I took a history of european radicalism/socialism class, a history of cold war cybernetics (of which a large part was Marxist debates about it in the USSR), and a Hegel class. I know political economy was also offered and required reading Marx's critiques of political economy, Next semester a Marxism In Germany and Russia class is being offered.
Noice.
One of these things is not like the other
I soured on Foucault when I found out about his relationship with children.
I don't like giving bad news but this Plato dude...
I soured on Orwell when I read him. Also dude's a snitch.
I swear it's partially a continental philosophy vs non continental program divide. Like a lot of US programs I think hardly touch Hegel even.
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Created a throwaway just to reply to this lol I study Law at a prestigious (private) university in Brazil and we haven't had any Marx pretty much, professors in general will even avoid talking about Pachukanis. Even in Economics or Sociology classes we weren't assigned any Marxist texts, which is just surreal. There was one very based professor which gave us a textbook that used Pachukanis' General Theory of Law, but that was pretty much it so far. Other than that professors will, at most, mention Marx or Marxist thought en passant. I'm pretty sure it's orders from up top, like in @dimmer06's case.
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no, not really. they tried to "purge" schoolteachers who were "indoctrinating" students but not even that went far. the vast majority of prestigious universities in Brazil are public and run by the federal government, so Bolsonaro tried to defund them and he keeps appointing ghoulish deans to run the universities, but besides that he hasn't been able to do much besides scattered actions.
don't get me wrong, good quality education, especially public university education, is under siege. but this isn't a recent development, it's something that liberal governments have been trying to do away with for a while, being pressured by private education conglomerates like Cogna or Yduqs. most academics aren't in danger of being arrested or harmed though, the only thing that is at risk is their jobs if the private sector succeeds in abolishing public universities.
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The deans are appointed? You don't choose them by vote?
"Stochastically" has a different meaning
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Oh, no idea
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"We won't teach you this very important thing cuz you wouldn't enjoy brunch anymore"
People don't study Marx precisely because they live in the imperial core.
You get sold the story of the inherent subversibility of theory and the continuous process of recuperation, but those things shockingly enough have limits and are sold mostly to demoralize you. People that argue for this stuff "unironically" and seem to not care they're on the losing end of the "ideas war" get pushback precisely BECAUSE they live in the imperial core and know the emperor has no clothes. The empire knows that all that's needed is for enough people to keep pushing this direction to topple the card castle.
It's extremely common to never read Marx in philosophy, economy, or poli sci degrees. Richard Wolff talks about this a lot. Shit sucks.
I had a philosophy minor, and made it almost all the way to the end of my PhD coursework before a professor put any Marx on a syllabus.
I've taken a few philosophy classes and never once have any of them ever mentioned marx /:
I didn't even know that was weird until seeing your comment
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yo based
Imperial core here with undergrad degree. I read a bunch of Marx.
But not in philosophy or Poli sci classes lol. In German class. It was pretty great.
PS Freud is much less pretentious in German. He just says, "the it" or "it" while English language academics have to get up their own asses and make it Latin as "the id".
Do you have any Freud recommendations?
Not really since I don't actually like Freud. My opinion on him is that he was good for jump-starting psych but should largely be left to history.
I like what I've heard from tertiary sources but haven't really dug into him yet.
One of my degrees is in a liberal art type thing and mention of Marx was exceedingly rare, most of the time only in the context of Marxism being one particular way you can choose to analyze culture, but it's better to not be stuck with any one particular analysis, which seemed to be the whole concept of "critical theory." I never heard it referred to as critical theory. It was just the assumed, standard sort of viewpoint.
I'm not a Marx fundamentalist, I have no idea what did he said. But friends from highschool that choose the last years specialization on "social sciences" (ie the people that later studied law, pedagogy, psychology, etc) had to read Das Kapital. In fucking highschool man. Then in college he was mentioned several times in very different subjects.
Yeah, I grew up in the American south, so my high school experience was more like "Evolution is probably incorrect also you shouldn't be gay or Muslim"
Doubt they had to read Das Kapital in high school, but they probably had to learn some stuff about it. It's more or less the same here. Even in economics departments there's some Marxists but in sociology, political science etc they are ubiquitous. Complete aversion to anything Marx related is an anglo thing.
Parts of it, yeah.
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That sucks so much too because historical materialism is very much explicitly against projection.
Ok, but we agree you kinda should or it would be good if?
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Yep, working in the bowels of capitalism (corporate offices) + actually learning history is what did it for me.
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