Thankfully I was given a bit of a leg up on that by only having sisters around me growing up, and seeing how fucking crushed they'd be when a dude just hollowly hounds them to fuck or drops any and all relationship with them when they find out that's not going to happen. I myself am not perfect at avoiding all of these things in some ways but it's really been lessened by seeing how much they'd be affected when someone they thought was a 'friend' just bounces from their lives forever.
My bigger issue was a lot of influence from my father and grandfather, who were both massive 'ladies men'. So I inherited an easy ability to drum up conversation and speak to women and a lot of expectations, but it took a lot of years of self-crit whenever I felt like I was becoming too much like a shitty guy this way, and straying from really listening and appreciating someone for who they are. It's a constantly ongoing process too because as it's evident to see I am a pretty hornt up dude, but I think I keep it mostly in check in person by being constantly horny online instead.
PS: fuck the volcel police, lumpenhornytariat forever!
So I inherited an easy ability to drum up conversation and speak to women and a lot of expectations
I had this experience too. People would say "Math, you're a funny guy! Why don't you have a gf?" Eventually I realized that I could get people to like me through jokes and charm, but I really didn't have many people that knew me. Jokes came naturally enough to me that it became a defense mechanism. Being funny to avoid any amount of vulnerability. Eventually girls would see through the facade, that I was offering nothing deeper than the surface level.
I don't know how that translates to your experience, but for me that was a step I remember. I was a nice enough person to be friends with, but I needed to grow a little more to become a person somebody would actually want to date.
In my (especially) awkward years in high school, I had no trouble getting the interest of women but would often find myself at an impasse where I was like 'oh fuck, now what?' The charm would lead to some really wild situations and then the body-image/self-worth issues would take over and I'd freeze up when it counted. So I definitely affinate with that 'seeing through the facade/surface level' part because when I was like 15-16 women would have some big expectations that I couldn't yet back up at the time.
Once my school had some raffle to give away roses to people in an assembly(which in retrospect is pretty fucking weird for a school system to facilitate amongst their kids), and as they were doing the last spin to pull a name out of the tumbler I just KNEW I'd be called. I actually was called up and had to give a rose away to someone and speak to the school over a microphone(see? wtf?). I had recently started hanging out with this beautiful dutch immigrant with a butt so big you could see it from the front :mos-def: :yassin-bey: / cheerleader, so I cracked some jokes and gave it to her. Normally we would just crack jokes in our classes and go for walks with each other and other basic cutesy stuff. I think at most by that time, I had held her hand in homeroom, lol... Her whole upper body turned beet red when she accepted in front of everyone, and after the assembly/school, she invited me to her place. She was super touchy and we'd wrestle, and she essentially joked about innuendos for sucking me off, and yet I froze up entirely and didn't even kiss her?!?! Like clearly she was into it all, but I just felt like I was super 'out of my league' because she was so hot and I'd heard from the older brother of my friend how they hooked up and she was a freak.
So I felt really shook by hearing that, built up weird assumptions, felt inadequate for no reason and she quickly lost interest after that. Definitely one of my worst cases of offering nothing to someone on the level they were hoping, getting disappointed, and seeing things as they were.
So it's not exactly the same way of being exposed, but it also leads me to other good advice for people trying to figure this out, in that you really have to ditch so many assumptions.
about 'flirting', what is/isn't 'a date', others being 'out of my league', etc... About all these expectations you feel like are present but don't really correspond to any actual experiences between you and the other person. If I knew that at that time and just been relaxed by realising what she and I actually had going together, I'd have been in lusty teenage heaven. But instead, I was still seeing things in the artificial silo of dating/flirting/leagues etc and that fucked things up.
She was super touchy and we’d wrestle, and she essentially joked about innuendos for sucking me off, and yet I froze up entirely and didn’t even kiss her!!! Like clearly she was into it all, but I just felt like I was super ‘out of my league’ because she was so hot and I’d heard from the older brother of my friend how they hooked up and she was a freak.
Oh god that brings me back to an awkward "almost" except I was in college so it's even worse. We were literally hanging out in her bed watching Friends, even her roommate knew what I was invited over for. Then I blew it cuz I never made the move. You get caught up in "what am I supposed to do, I hope I don't screw it up" . Literally the only thing I could do to screw it up was what I did and that was not make a move.
all stale friends references aside, that really does hit too close to home. It happened to me a few more times around the same period as the other story, but eventually I pushed through that mental block and things got waay easier after that.
When I was in someone's basement and we fell off the couch from awkward teenage makeout manoeuvres while watching Contact I realised something along the lines of like 'oh, awkward stuff is actually pretty funny and not a deal-breaker when you work through it together!' because we just got back into it once I helped her up.
Awkward shit is actually really endearing in a space where you both feel good around each other!
Yeah, you pick up a very specific L, and that helps you figure something out in the future along those lines.
Like once in my early 20s, an old crush dating back from elementary school(!!) had moved downtown and came over to my place to drink.
She was talking about her legs being sore after work(lifeguard), so she did some yoga poses/stretches while I watched, and later placed her legs across my lap... I didn't do a thing lol.
Realised how stupid that was, and the next time some lady was bending and doing yoga at my place I joined in and we did couples stretches and had mutually one of our hottest nights ever! After realising how stupid it was to miss out on the signal the first time, I knew what to do the second time around... it's all a learning experience on how to be comfortable around people in most situations
That is not entirely your fault. Treating anyone like a human being and not like a means to an end goes against the predominant ideology under capitalism.
Yeah it took me embarrassingly long to understand that "just treat pretty women like human beings."
Thankfully I was given a bit of a leg up on that by only having sisters around me growing up, and seeing how fucking crushed they'd be when a dude just hollowly hounds them to fuck or drops any and all relationship with them when they find out that's not going to happen. I myself am not perfect at avoiding all of these things in some ways but it's really been lessened by seeing how much they'd be affected when someone they thought was a 'friend' just bounces from their lives forever.
My bigger issue was a lot of influence from my father and grandfather, who were both massive 'ladies men'. So I inherited an easy ability to drum up conversation and speak to women and a lot of expectations, but it took a lot of years of self-crit whenever I felt like I was becoming too much like a shitty guy this way, and straying from really listening and appreciating someone for who they are. It's a constantly ongoing process too because as it's evident to see I am a pretty hornt up dude, but I think I keep it mostly in check in person by being constantly horny online instead.
PS: fuck the volcel police, lumpenhornytariat forever!
:stalin-young:
I had this experience too. People would say "Math, you're a funny guy! Why don't you have a gf?" Eventually I realized that I could get people to like me through jokes and charm, but I really didn't have many people that knew me. Jokes came naturally enough to me that it became a defense mechanism. Being funny to avoid any amount of vulnerability. Eventually girls would see through the facade, that I was offering nothing deeper than the surface level.
I don't know how that translates to your experience, but for me that was a step I remember. I was a nice enough person to be friends with, but I needed to grow a little more to become a person somebody would actually want to date.
In my (especially) awkward years in high school, I had no trouble getting the interest of women but would often find myself at an impasse where I was like 'oh fuck, now what?' The charm would lead to some really wild situations and then the body-image/self-worth issues would take over and I'd freeze up when it counted. So I definitely affinate with that 'seeing through the facade/surface level' part because when I was like 15-16 women would have some big expectations that I couldn't yet back up at the time.
Once my school had some raffle to give away roses to people in an assembly(which in retrospect is pretty fucking weird for a school system to facilitate amongst their kids), and as they were doing the last spin to pull a name out of the tumbler I just KNEW I'd be called. I actually was called up and had to give a rose away to someone and speak to the school over a microphone(see? wtf?). I had recently started hanging out with this beautiful dutch immigrant with a butt so big you could see it from the front :mos-def: :yassin-bey: / cheerleader, so I cracked some jokes and gave it to her. Normally we would just crack jokes in our classes and go for walks with each other and other basic cutesy stuff. I think at most by that time, I had held her hand in homeroom, lol... Her whole upper body turned beet red when she accepted in front of everyone, and after the assembly/school, she invited me to her place. She was super touchy and we'd wrestle, and she essentially joked about innuendos for sucking me off, and yet I froze up entirely and didn't even kiss her?!?! Like clearly she was into it all, but I just felt like I was super 'out of my league' because she was so hot and I'd heard from the older brother of my friend how they hooked up and she was a freak.
So I felt really shook by hearing that, built up weird assumptions, felt inadequate for no reason and she quickly lost interest after that. Definitely one of my worst cases of offering nothing to someone on the level they were hoping, getting disappointed, and seeing things as they were.
So it's not exactly the same way of being exposed, but it also leads me to other good advice for people trying to figure this out, in that you really have to ditch so many assumptions.
about 'flirting', what is/isn't 'a date', others being 'out of my league', etc... About all these expectations you feel like are present but don't really correspond to any actual experiences between you and the other person. If I knew that at that time and just been relaxed by realising what she and I actually had going together, I'd have been in lusty teenage heaven. But instead, I was still seeing things in the artificial silo of dating/flirting/leagues etc and that fucked things up.
Oh god that brings me back to an awkward "almost" except I was in college so it's even worse. We were literally hanging out in her bed watching Friends, even her roommate knew what I was invited over for. Then I blew it cuz I never made the move. You get caught up in "what am I supposed to do, I hope I don't screw it up" . Literally the only thing I could do to screw it up was what I did and that was not make a move.
"could you BE any more clueless?!"
all stale friends references aside, that really does hit too close to home. It happened to me a few more times around the same period as the other story, but eventually I pushed through that mental block and things got waay easier after that.
When I was in someone's basement and we fell off the couch from awkward teenage makeout manoeuvres while watching Contact I realised something along the lines of like 'oh, awkward stuff is actually pretty funny and not a deal-breaker when you work through it together!' because we just got back into it once I helped her up.
Awkward shit is actually really endearing in a space where you both feel good around each other!
deleted by creator
Yeah, you pick up a very specific L, and that helps you figure something out in the future along those lines.
Like once in my early 20s, an old crush dating back from elementary school(!!) had moved downtown and came over to my place to drink.
She was talking about her legs being sore after work(lifeguard), so she did some yoga poses/stretches while I watched, and later placed her legs across my lap... I didn't do a thing lol.
Realised how stupid that was, and the next time some lady was bending and doing yoga at my place I joined in and we did couples stretches and had mutually one of our hottest nights ever! After realising how stupid it was to miss out on the signal the first time, I knew what to do the second time around... it's all a learning experience on how to be comfortable around people in most situations
That is not entirely your fault. Treating anyone like a human being and not like a means to an end goes against the predominant ideology under capitalism.