I'm trying to have a discussion with some friends, many of which are Zionist.

Can anyone help me out in sketching out a good reply to these points? I think you can tell by their language that they aren't a total lost cause, but I would like to push them on the right side. It's just very difficult when you're Jewish like me and grow up in an extremely Jewish area where Zionism is a default programming for young Jews:

Hey, so, like, can we separate this into three distinct conversations. I think it will help clarify...

Arab-Israeli citizens of Israel are full citizens. They vote. They have political parties. They have civil trials, etc... Their status in Israel is akin to Black Americans. Israeli Supreme Court + Constitution guarantees them full rights. In practice they face systemic racism/discrimination like Black Americans. This eviction situation is like if orthodox Jews in brooklyn moved to evict poor Black residents who have lived in a building for 50 years.

Gaza is a self-governing territory within Israel domain. It is somewhat like Guam (not a perfect analogy). People of Gaza have limited self-determination in terms of things like zoning, school systems, economic laws, utilities etc... They have their own court system. Their own police force. The two main issues with Gaza are that (1) they do not control their own borders, and (2) they do not have enough utilities to support themselves so they rely on Israel for electricity + water. Relying on Israel for this isn't at Israel's choice. They could develop more/better or could import from Egypt. I wish more supporters of Gaza would just raise money to build a better power plant!

The West Bank is basically what you think of as apartheid. This is sort've like Indian Reserves in the US pre 1924 act that admitted Native Americans as citizens. West Bank residents are tried in military courts and do not have voting rights. They do control their own police force, education system, and other limited systems, but they are really at the mercy of Israeli government policies.

  • star_wraith [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    This is sort’ve like Indian Reserves in the US pre 1924 act that admitted Native Americans as citizens.

    This isn't supposed to be a full answer... but the West Bank cannot be compared to Indian Reserves. Because the Israeli government has no interest in just letting the Palestinians control the West Bank in a form of semi-autonomy. If that actually was the case we would be much closer to peace there. The critical issue here is that the Israeli government wants the west bank. They do not want Palestinians living in the west bank, they want it all for themselves.

    But the "problem", they can't just go in and murder all the Palestinians living there and move in themselves, as much as they may want to. Even that would be beyond the pale and I would imagine lead to all-out war. So instead the Israeli government is playing the "long game". They evict Palestinians here and there and settle Israeli families. Every year, the Palestinians are forced to cede ever more land in the west bank. The goal is to eventually strange them to death.

    Your friend isn't arguing in favor of what Israel is actually doing, but is instead arguing in favor of a white-washed unreality that doesn't exist.