Honestly a lot of it is probably people getting comfortable lurking again, Lemmy only counts post and comments as active users
It's funny how despite social media becoming very normal, the old phenomenon of most content getting generated by a small portion of power users persists.
Have you seen the shitpost communities? Cleverness isn't required, and in fact I think in those communities it's somewhat frowned upon, 'cause c'mon, no polishing shit!
My biggest issue is I always forget my good shit posts by the time I have time to post. Getting old sucks
Ok I am guilty of that. What about votes? Are they not counted as activity?
I’ll try to post atleast one comment every now and then.
Let's look at some numbers and do some napkin math:
Currently, the top post of Lemmy can usually get a little more than 2K upvotes, which puts Lemmy at about late 2010 to early 2011 reddit level of activity, which is right before reddit hits its explosive growth phase in 2012 with SOPA, Kony, and the Obama AMA. While active user count has been going down, the amount of post and comments have both been steadily going up.
You also have to realize that in more than a decade, there was never a reddit alternative that has EVER hit this level of activity. (unless you count 9gag or the_donald for some reason.)
Infinite growth is not a good thing, numbers rise and fall just let it do it's own thing. That being said, maybe if the Lemmy instances would stop defederating like children snatching toys from one another at a daycare it would get more engagement.
It's very simple, most of the posts here are circle jerks (Linux, FOSS, boy howdy aren't we better than Reddit, communism) or rage bait.
I only come here when I'm having a good day and I want to reel myself in a bit
Edit: see below to see how far Lemmy users will go to circle jerk how much better they are then Reddit
Yeah the "All" in particular is pretty bad for the average person. They're not going to enjoy a Star Trek meme, followed by a Arch meme, a Self-hosted post, a grad-student Science meme, followed by a privacy post.
I'm also convinced Lemmy's "hot" algorithm is broken; I can easily find posts with ONE UPVOTE on the all feed. Hot is supposed to be a balance between acceleration and total vote count, but it seems like it just only acceleration. Go look at the front page of reddit. The difference is night and day.
We need a normie.world that has an "all" feed that doesn't contain 70% niche communities. We have c/humor, c/news, etc but they're completely diluted by overpowered niche posts.
I have a potentially contentious opinion. Normies are what ruined Reddit and the crowd attracted by normie communities are why Reddit is even more toxic than it used to be.
We don't need to attract normies, we just need to attract more people like us.
I don't hate normies by any means, but I don't want to hang out with them all day either.
Yeah I completely disagree. Imagine if a city/local gov wanted to use Lemmy in order to be self hosted (similar to EU govs switching to Mastodon) but the public just wonders why their local gov put their stuff on a weird circle jerk website that's flooded with niche memes. "Why didn't they use the normal thing (i.e. reddit)?"
We should be welcoming enough that, when someone wants to make a new subreddit, they make Lemmy community instead. And I don't think thats the case right now.
We need a normie.world
It's called reddit and that's why I left. Fuck the normies. They'll import fascism.
That sounds unnecessarily combative so let me expand my argument.
There's a book called The Authoritarians by a man called Bob Altermyer. Altermyer is now retired but he was a professor of psychology at the University of Manitoba. During his career he did a lot of research into authoritarians, both followers and leaders. In the book he describes for laypeople the experiments and the findings. If you want to do a deep dive into his statistical analysis you can because the whole thing is fully referenced but for people who just want an easy to read description that is also easy to understand then this is the book for you.
After reading the book redditors behaviour became a lot more easy to understand. I was less upset by what was going on but I stopped engaging because I now understood that reddit wasn't a site for me anymore. It was a site for people that enjoyed being normal and doing normal things. And that's ok, why shouldn't they be catered for?
I use reddit and lemmy exclusively on desktop or laptop. So when the app business came up I didn't regard it as my fight, however I thought that if I expected people to stand up for my interests if they are challenged I should show a bit of solidarity with them. So I didn't visit reddit at all for the days it was blacked out. I didn't like how spez reacted. I saw that people were crossing to the fediverse and I took a look for myself. I liked it. I posted. I wasn't attacked for having a non-normie viewpoint. I liked that a lot.
The thing about normies is they don't read scientific studies for fun, they don't like long winded explanations about why the world is the way it is. They think they can see something in the street and extrapolate an entire social policy from it and there are chancers that will tell them, 'You know what? You're right. We don't need experts telling you that you're wrong, what do they know?'
So your Jordan Petersons and your Nigel Farages and Alex whatever his nameis, these people and reddit's normie audience are made for each other. I'll even go as far as to say this extends to the people that think the Democrats or the Labour Party are going to fix their problems, Team Liberal aren't doing themselves any favours but my point is that if your goal is a massive website that caters to the largest part of the reddit audience you're going to end up swimming in cryptofascist and sometimes outright fascist content. Been there, seen that, got the t-shirt.
Listen, just go and read the thing; it will be time better spent than listening to me precis it from memory. but if you do read it a feel like it hasn't given you an insight into what drives a whole host of behaviour that one sees on social media or that I've misunderstood the book then do come back to me and I will refresh my memory of the book to have that discussion with you.
While I don't entirely disagree, I'm a little confused by your description of the front page of lemm.ee, which we're both on. My front page when viewing All here is mostly memes/shitposts/news/technology when set to Active sort, is yours not?
I've admittedly blocked a fair amount and have show NSFW/bot posts disabled, but the communities you mention aren't affected by that.
Yeah I could've been more clear. I mean the All feed not Local. I went and updated my comment. And to be fully clear, I've got no complaints about lemm.ee. It's exactly what I want, e.g. show me everything and I'll decide what to block. That said, I know I'm not the norm.
Saying you blocked a fair amount is exactly what I'm talking about, so have I. A little bit of effort can really make the feed more palletable. We need to have a place where that is done by default. Maybe even an open source AI or even just an algorithm that tailors it to the user. I'm already glad Lemmy.world is much more moderate than lemm.ee, and we just need a place that goes all the way; NSFW blocked by default, several communities blocked-by-default (not defederated), and somehow prevents All from being flooded by niche memes. I love Linux and the memes (even if they get a bit repetitive) but we shouldn't have 3 of the top 10 posts be linux memes.
I tried to get my lab mate, a PhD in computer science and Linux Mint user, to get a Lemmy. He took one look at the all page, laughed, pointed out the circle jerk stuff and asked how some junk posts even made it to the all page and then said "yeah, no thanks" and has never touched Lemmy since. He was already 4 times more likely than the average person, but even he was instantly turned off.
I gotcha. Fwiw I kind of agree, even beyond Lemmy I've been a little surprised some of these sites/instances haven't done more to tailor themselves to accommodate more folks or focus on specific demographics.
That's supposed to be one of the big perks of the federation approach, being able to create more distinct communities, but outside of a few, they largely seem to run the software as-is, maybe with some backend adjustments to help reduce the costs of operation or the like.
Yeah, and maybe that means I should try making such an instance. I don't have the funds for something like lemmy.world, but I've got the technical background. So maybe that'll turn into my winter break project
That's not lemmy, that's all social media (albite divisive topics are a bit different among different communities).
This is a hot take, but I think humanity is slowly turning it's back on social media because of it's toxic nature. You can only open a browser and get your nuts kicked so many times before you finally decide you don't like getting your nuts kicked.
Hey don't forget about the other half of the posts, which are in a language you don't understand. Seriously, my block list is long because language settings here mean nothing, and while I'm sure that's quality content, uh, I can't understand it.
Thats why i like this place. Arguing and discussion online is terrible and its more suited to do with friends you trust.
It doesn't help that every feds response to literally any perceived slight is OH MY GOD DEFEDERATE NOW. Kinda defeats the purpose and advantage of the fediverse.
Hexbear still going strong though. We'll be here after every else continues to splinter and defed from each other I'll bet
Lmao Hexbear defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.blahaj.zone, in both cases with extensive theatrics and drama for essentially no concrete reason. Y'all literally defederated a server that is run by a trans woman as a safe space for gender diverse people because you claimed it was transphobic 😂
Yeah, you're really going strong over there, no splintering whatsoever.
We literally defederated from a server that our trans community fairly unanimously said was harming them yes. Are you saying that we should have ignored our entire trans community?
Shit just works kept actually threatening our community so I appreciate our mods defederating from them too. Not sure what you think a "good" reason is if you apparently think "threatening actual material harm on a community" is a bad one.
All of this is clearly laid out in the posts about the defeds, which you could go read for more information. You won't. But you could educate yourself instead of spouting complete nonsense
I have read them, and there is no evidence. You clearly don't need evidence over there, anything a hexbear account says is the absolute truth, and anything from another server is absolute fascism. You guys don't concern yourself with the details or nuances in life.
Let's have a look at the defederation announcement about sh.itjust.works. Keep in mind this was less than 48 hours after you voluntarily voted to federate with us, expecting to abuse and overwhelm our userbase like you had already done to many smaller servers. Unfortunately, you didn't realize that we were larger than you and thus less susceptible to being drowned out by the brigading, which led to a quick tactical retreat by your fearless leaders.
https://hexbear.net/post/504353
Firstly, opening up by calling us sh.itsfulla.chuds and sh.itholefor.nazis. Very mature and rational behavior from an admin 👏
Multiple instances of ableist and homophobic slurs directed at our users
I personally witnessed a hexbear user throwing a shit fit about people using the word "crazy". Apparently that's an ableist slur. Woopdee-doo
overwhelming litigiousness against even the most innocuous comments by our users, and just a general ethos of reactionary behavior. We’re done and out.
Lmao, I guess my point is self evident here. A lot of big words that convey absolutely no information about what specifically was objectionable about the behavior of sh.itjust.works users. I'd love if you could explain to me how "overwhelming litigiousness" and "a general ethos of reactionary behavior" are grounds for defederation 😂
I have also read the things that hexbear users have said about everybody else, and quite frankly they are the most nakedly racist and xenophobic comments on the entirety of Lemmy. Imagine having the gall to use the most hateful and dehumanizing language towards white people as a matter of principle, and then turn around and get all butthurt at a "racist" meme of Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh. Try to rationalize that one for me, because I can't seem to figure it out
Oh God he's white and thinks people can be racist against him
Hilarious. Good luck with middle school, you're gonna learn a lot!
You're a hateful person who's making the world a worse place. Learn to empathize.
Hexbear is holding pretty steady, I think there are just a lot of Ledditors elsewhere still who were never going to stick around longterm
yeah, idk, we've built up an actual community here over the last few years and all these redditors have come over, made reddit 2 but worse on their instances, got bored and then left
The internet outside of hexbear is generally hostile to many of our views, so it's not like we can easily go elsewhere.
Outdoor cats are destructive to the ecosystem, keeping a pet is the exploitation of an animal and is therefore not vegan, and forcing a vegan diet on an obligate carnivore is , depending on how you do it, either pointless or animal abuse.
While I provide no further argument or justification for these points, understand that I am unchallengably correct as I am the one true Marxist.
Personnaly, I'm really enjoying it. You can interact without the Reddit toxicity. I miss a few specialized communities but I can live without it.
Yeah Reddit just sucks now. I don't care much about karma, but it can be discouraging to type out a long answer to help someone and just get a downvote with no comment or anything. Over and over again.
The influx of people who don't know how the site is supposed to work, on top of the usual toxicity, has just ruined it for me.
The quality here is far better with the exception of maybe some user generated text stories. Posts don't just get lost in a sea of posts. The users here may not be as many, but it appears to have more consistent engagement and far less people PM'ing me offering me Amazon gift cards for feet pics.
We should be more active to keep this ship afloat. Don't be stingy with the comments.
Edit: spelling
You mean stingyv not stringy
But if I give my opinion on Pokemon's, my server will get defederated, so I'll keep quiet.
I prefer social media not based on addiction. Lemmy has been much better for my lifestyle, than my reddit addiction.
this is an excellent point. perhaps the slowness of the content here is helping those of us who've been on reddit forever and are used to just doom scrolling through endless content.
i spend less time here but I feel I get more direct 'value' when I do. it's more small business feel than condy nast breathing margins down the user community's throats(pre and post gold eras)
I quit the R word cold turkey re: API and now toggle between this and kbin but lemmy with eternity app has been the best baconreader withdrawal breaker for me.
to the fediverse and beyond!
Yep! Great points!
Another big point is that it's a rejection of the profit motive, ie there's not even a "small business" feeling like you say for me, but a far more genuine feeling. Nobody has tried to sell me anything here yet.
you're right, but I have seen some of the hustles from outside setting up shop here.
if the audience becomes large enough, there will be marketing.
unfortunately inevitable
Coulda fooled me, the content quality has continued to climb, and that's all that matters. Look at this post, it's an original meme only relevant to this community, and it's blowing up.
It really doesn't bother me tbh. The fediverse isn't for everyone and I'd rather people just use whatever platform they prefer than endlessly complaining on Lemmy when it's clearly simply not for them. And that's okay, use whatever platform suits you.
Lemmy is cool and all but the amount of communist obsession here is a bit much.
It was founded by a Communist, and decentralization appeals to leftists. The non-Communist lemmy is Reddit, basically, or making your own instance or finding an anti-Communist instance.
Less content, that is spread across multiple instances that can have duplicate communities.
You just can't keep doomscrolling here, the "active" search repeats all the time and the "best of the day" is like two pages.
And then there's specific communities that just... Stayed on Reddit.
Less content, that is spread across multiple instances that can have duplicate communities.
on top of that, there redundant communities that are unnecessary even in the same instances. For example there is the android@ and the askandroid@. The first one has a decent amount of subscribers while the second one has a single digit number. I wanted to ask a question, I posted in the first one since it would make sense to reach more people. The post got deleted and I was told to go to the other one. In the first one they were posting only news articles.
This is ridiculous. Splitting communities in such way was the result of the huge traffic that such communities had in the past in other platforms. This makes sense only when the traffic is so huge that it is practically chaotic to navigate and moderate between news/articles and support questions. When both communities combined have 50 subscribers, such split only harms the platform and the users.
Everyone wanted to migrate by bringing an identical environment to what they had used to. However this should be adaptable to the current situation instead of directly copying it.
The post got deleted and I was told to go to the other one. In the first one they were posting only news articles
Ill call it garbage reddit-brain moderation. The reason for an /ask~ comm is cause your main comm is flooded with repeated questions that would stifle discussion. It's also not a good solution to that problem, not too mention they don't have enough users to be having that problem.
The way you form a community is to discuss the same things over and over until a hivemind develops, it's a good thing to have a group consensus, not that individuals can't disagree. Now the crappy moderation is gonna cultivate a crappy subreddit vibe instead of something better.
I think some people expected their entire community to get up and move.
I actually found that I really like the "hot" scrolling so much better. On Reddit, everything I came across had ~hundreds of comments and everything was multiple hours old. I didn't feel like I could contribute at all. But here... it feels a lot smaller, and most of the "hot" posts are not rubbish, so I feel like I can actually contribute!
Well for me, the real content of Reddit was finding an interesting thing and then reading a few dozen comments from people really in the know.
Here it's going to be a dozen top-level comments and maybe one of them will have a thread longer than three messages.
It's not just that. Most people here are into far left, anti-capitalist bs and people don't care to deal with that
People clearly support that, and it makes sense, considering Lemmy's founder is a Communist and decentralization appeals to Leftists.
People are leaving lemmy because of the quality of the apps
They are used to using a terrible app that often breaks and spams you with notifications of random posts
