I've seen a lot on people in twitter discussing wether people should do "kinks"(?) in pride because they might scar the children for life and other arguments. Also calling people like the youtuber Big Joel pedos for thinking this is not a huge deal.
What happened? Maybe this is an american thing but since when have kids been brought to pride?
Sure, the difference is the way you're framing it. A person being naked is not doing anything morally wrong, but you frame it as though the decision not to cover their body is some kind of inherently malicious act. They're not just choosing not to hide their body, they are "exposing themselves." As though the natural, normal state of a human is to be covered and ashamed, and that by choosing to take off their clothes, these people are going out of their way to do some kind of harm.
Do you notice how in both of your examples, the actual harm being done is that the naked person is harassing someone? That is because even you cannot adequately describe how being naked is an issue, so you must invent something actually harmful for the naked person to be doing while they are naked. Why can't the naked person just, you know, not swing his dick around at a group of women at a pool? Why can't he just hang out inside the pool like everyone else? Well, because then it would be obvious he's not doing anything wrong and you wouldn't have a point.
Can't a clothed person also harass women at the pool?
Yes exposing yourself to non consenting people is harassment. A dick pic is harassment because it's not consented to, if it was the mere sending of an image of your body without asking first than selfies and face reveals would be considered harassment which they are clearly not. It being the genitals is an inherent part of why dick pics are considered wrong.
Also sure, he could just be sitting around naked in public but that's still inappropriate to be doing since no one around you is consenting to that. It is inherently harassment.
This is different than, say, a cis woman not wearing a shirt because cis men can do that too and they're fighting for equal rights on the measure. But your genitals are a different question and revealing them in public isn't ok.
There's a specific context behind a dick pic that makes it harassment though. I don't think that the fact that it's genitals that makes it inherently wrong, it's the intent behind it, and it's the fact that you are sort of virtually putting an erect penis into someone's face expecting a response. If exposed genitals themselves are inherently wrong I don't see why flaccid penises on marble statues in a public park or museum wouldn't be considered wrong as well.
When you say "revealing them in public" it makes me think of a public flasher/predator or something and that's not how I'd personally categorize the vast majority of "near nudity" I see at pride events.
But by your standards, it is entirely reasonable to say that both are wrong and that men should also be legally forced to cover their nipples because I don't wanna see any nips.
Anyway, to cut through all the bullshit that this conversation could descend to, I have a simple question: Why do I need your consent when deciding what I want to wear?
Because it's a public space, and there are things that you don't do in public. Same way you don't have sex in public because it violates the consent of those around you, regardless if it's also a "natural" thing. Let's not kid ourselves here, the majority of skimpy clothing and displays of nudity are meant sexually, this is different from something like a mother breastfeeding her kid.
Once you start involving others in it, especially with sexual displays, you don't get to just focus entirely on your own rights.
No.
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Not every single one is, but we shouldn't act as if the majority of them aren't being done in that way. Especially in the broader topic of "kink" for public displays of nudity.
IDK, saying that they aren't is kinda like saying "Well what if they sent the dick pic to get a spot on it checked and not as a sexual reason?", Like sure it's possible but also you'd have to be willfully blind of most people's motives to say that.
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Of course nudity isn't always sexual, but we're talking about kink, the entire discourse of this is around sexuality and displaying it.
And at the end of the day, if you're being sexual with people who don't want it, you are violating their consent. It doesn't matter if you can say "Well not all nudity is sexual based" if it's obvious to anyone with half a thought that you intended yours to be now. No one would accept that BS excuse for anything else, why should I accept it now as one?
Now honestly I don't think the problem is even that relevant for pride to begin with, Cishet society (especially cishet men) are basically sexual harassment and consent ignoring machines and pride marches are 95% just people with rainbow flags in normal clothes so the entire conversation seems rather unimportant to begin with but at least within this discussion that did occur, no one is going to be stupid enough to accept "No I'm not streaking for sexual reasons, I swear!"
Some dude's desire for exhibitionism doesn't let him ignore the rights and consent of those around him. And the amount of good faith queer people (not homophobic cishets) in this discourse who say that they would feel their consent is violated should be acknowledged.
There's a naturist group that marches in our parade every year, and I have seen numerous people nude with messages on their bodies such as "still not asking for it." Am I "stupid" for believing those people aren't doing it to get their jollies at my personal expense?
I just don't see how every state of nudity or semi-nudity at pride has to be someone performing some exhibitionist kink, and if we're going to be upset at people for showing off, I don't know why we don't shame people for wearing thongs or push up speedos or tassels or mesh tops or leather shorts. Or maybe that is how you feel since you mentioned "normal" clothes. Not everyone who is not dressed in "normal clothes" is "some dude" trying to shove their junk in your face but it feels like that's the dichotomy that exists in your mind.
Now I suspect you'll say that those things are okay as long as they "don't show too much" or "too see through" but I don't even know what that I means because again, that's very subjective. People can show off and dress very provocatively without being fully nude, is it the second I can see an inch of skin in the forbidden areas that my consent is violated? Is that when something changes from "normal" to someone being an exhibitionist? It doesn't really make sense to me tbh. I can think of several instances where I saw someone nude that was clearly not sexual and when I saw someone covering up their naughty bits that was exuberating sexual energy.
We can acknowledge that people feel their consent is violated and I agree that the hypothetical man shoving his erect penis in people's faces should be shamed, but given that pride is an event attended by thousands and thousands of people and it is an event that, in part, is celebrating people's sexuality, it's hard to imagine that you'll be able to cover every ground in terms of consent when it comes to people in various states of undress (especially given that these events are often occurring on very hot days with thousands of people packed into a small space). There are a lot of folks who might feel uncomfortable from displays of sexuality that don't involve nudity because of past trauma, who also may feel like they didn't consent to that display, but it's hard to get a crowd that large and diverse to cater to every individual. It sucks but I don't know what the solution is, you can't just ask everyone to dress and act "normal."
Thankfully though there are plenty of family friendly events for folks who want something more PG.