newusername [she/her]

I mean I don't think so, the idea that public kink is disrespectful and violates consent is one that many members of the kink community themselves argue https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMcommunity/comments/loguci/leashing_in_public/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMcommunity/comments/79htlt/at_what_point_do_you_consider_public_displays_of/

Arguments like "There's a line, of course, where it's kind of silly. Wearing an obvious collar in public, IMO, isn't a problem. Calling someone "Sir" in public is fine. But if you get into things like public humiliation and very obvious and intense D/S dynamics, you have to remember that Joe Nobody walking down the street didn't give informed consent." That's the opinion I hold on the matter too, a few simple things ok but when you get to obvious sexual behavior there is no such thing as informed consent for the public and you are thus violating it and are acting unethically. You even see people making similar points like "Don't conflate homosexuality with a kink. It's extremely disrespectful.....two gay people exisiting in public is NOT inherently sexual and people who hold the perception are either extremely misguided, uniformed, or just plain ol homophobic."

She has been to a drag show before right? They're not a bunch of people saying "Ooo imma suck your dick" and stripping themselves, oftentimes it's the opposite way around even and they cover themselves up in a lot of hyperfeminine clothing. It's not a fucking strip club, it's more like a fashion show, that's why you can have stuff like Rupaul on TV.

Nudity is not inherently sexual, but it's asinine to pretend as if most of the time when a bunch of men are going around with their dongs out that they aren't doing it for sexual reasons, especially in a discussion of kink. "Kink should be allowed, our sexuality should not be shamed" "ok but I don't think we should display sexuality in front of people who don't want it without consent" "WTF it's not always sexual", it can't be both depending on what benefits the person wanting to walking around nude in front of others.

There’s a naturist group that marches in our parade every year, and I have seen numerous people nude with messages on their bodies such as “still not asking for it.” Am I “stupid” for believing those people aren’t doing it to get their jollies at my personal expense?

That's an entirely different discussion than "kink" discourse. We can't start a conversation off about sexual actions, and then try to be like "well ok but some of those actions aren't sexual" in response to people critiquing the original claims. I've never said that all nudity is bad, but display of sexuality can be depending on how it's involving others into it. This is discourse that isn't just about queer people either, but also cishets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnyn7WtD-hw. And that the discourse is also centered around cishet people should also be a pretty big sign that being gay is not the same as being kinky, they are two different spectrums all together. And not every queer person is comfortable with or wants to be involved in another person's sexual displays, because not all queer people are always horny, despite what so many arguments try to present us as.

What I've done for the queer places I mod/help in is say that you can use it for yourself but not for other people or for the community as a group. So if you want to call yourself a slur I won't really stop you, but if you say "Us slurs deal with a lot of shit" or whatever then no, you're including other people now who don't want to be called that.

Of course nudity isn't always sexual, but we're talking about kink, the entire discourse of this is around sexuality and displaying it.

And at the end of the day, if you're being sexual with people who don't want it, you are violating their consent. It doesn't matter if you can say "Well not all nudity is sexual based" if it's obvious to anyone with half a thought that you intended yours to be now. No one would accept that BS excuse for anything else, why should I accept it now as one?

Now honestly I don't think the problem is even that relevant for pride to begin with, Cishet society (especially cishet men) are basically sexual harassment and consent ignoring machines and pride marches are 95% just people with rainbow flags in normal clothes so the entire conversation seems rather unimportant to begin with but at least within this discussion that did occur, no one is going to be stupid enough to accept "No I'm not streaking for sexual reasons, I swear!"

Some dude's desire for exhibitionism doesn't let him ignore the rights and consent of those around him. And the amount of good faith queer people (not homophobic cishets) in this discourse who say that they would feel their consent is violated should be acknowledged.

I don't want to be hateful or off-putting with this but I really just can't stand the large majority of men, it's obviously not some inherent feature in them but there's some part of all the socialization and shit that they go through that makes the majority of them fucking intolerable to be around.

I can name maybe like three dudes in my life who I don't consider to be creeps and one of them is considering if they're non binary! Women are often shitty too but not in the same way and not in the same amount. And when they are, it at least tends to be toned down a lot more (once again likely due to socialization) so it's more tolerable compared to the Dudebro who will fling slurs and make sexual comments about you. Like talk to any woman in your life and you'll hear endless stories of harassment by men, but you won't hear it the other way around from women, the worst you'll (often) get is that one time some chick was a bit rude.

I mean I agree about that, and I do think there is a lot of selective puritanism involved here (especially by Cishet society) despite the fact that they will parade around kids as sexual attractions and make statements like "Wow you're going to be so hot when you grow up" to young girls and the like, but I personally don't see that contradiction in society being a good defense of it. If anything it's the opposite and sexualizing everything is a disturbing trend in society that victimizes and harasses people who don't want it, a societal trend of Cishets that queer culture shouldn't be joining because it's filled with misogyny and pedophilia.

I mean for the lib brain, just by hiring a few workers in the area a lot of companies are seen as inherently giving back by "creating jobs"

Not every single one is, but we shouldn't act as if the majority of them aren't being done in that way. Especially in the broader topic of "kink" for public displays of nudity.

IDK, saying that they aren't is kinda like saying "Well what if they sent the dick pic to get a spot on it checked and not as a sexual reason?", Like sure it's possible but also you'd have to be willfully blind of most people's motives to say that.

Why do I need your consent when deciding what I want to wear?

Because it's a public space, and there are things that you don't do in public. Same way you don't have sex in public because it violates the consent of those around you, regardless if it's also a "natural" thing. Let's not kid ourselves here, the majority of skimpy clothing and displays of nudity are meant sexually, this is different from something like a mother breastfeeding her kid.

Once you start involving others in it, especially with sexual displays, you don't get to just focus entirely on your own rights.

Breasts and nipples are completely different than genitals, there are double standards around people with flat chests vs breasts (mostly men vs women so it's very misogynistic based) but genitals aren't acceptable for either.

As long as the bikini (or speedo) properly covers things up then fuck the complainers, but if it's too small and shows things or is see through in some way tan it's not ok.

Yes exposing yourself to non consenting people is harassment. A dick pic is harassment because it's not consented to, if it was the mere sending of an image of your body without asking first than selfies and face reveals would be considered harassment which they are clearly not. It being the genitals is an inherent part of why dick pics are considered wrong.

Also sure, he could just be sitting around naked in public but that's still inappropriate to be doing since no one around you is consenting to that. It is inherently harassment.

This is different than, say, a cis woman not wearing a shirt because cis men can do that too and they're fighting for equal rights on the measure. But your genitals are a different question and revealing them in public isn't ok.

How about you think about it for a second and realize there's an obvious difference between someone being fat, and someone exposing themselves in public.

Would you throw out those same defenses of "natural human body" if it was some cishet dude swinging his dick around at a group of women at a pool? No, that would be sexual harassment. Some asshole chud getting angry that fat people exist is completely different than that.

What about dick pics? "oh that's no different than sending a pic of their face, it's all the human body"? No, it's sexual harassment and not appropriate unless they consent first.

Yeah I mean who cares about all the people who don't want me exposing my genitals in their face /s

How dare checks notes a community for vulnerable and often abused people not want me to expose myself to them without consent.

But a lot of people do think overly tight speedos are too revealing. I don't mean near naked as in "wearing a bikini", I mean wearing see through/lace underwear, or things that fit too small.

Topless equality is a different thing than running around with bottom genitals exposed.

Speedos are often seen as inappropriate too if they expose too much.

I think it depends on what we mean by "kink" here too. Someone just wearing a BDSM collar out without anything else and it just looks like a fashion accessory to children is clearly on a different level than say, someone walking around near naked.

The latter is the type of thing that I believe to be wrong even if pride was entirely adults because other adults deserve to be treated respectfully and not exposed to without prior consent (and gay men/bi women are not all horny addicts who want to see every man naked), where as something like the first one isn't even pushing the line yet for me and I have no qualms.

But that's how I tend to view what should be acceptable for pride, as an issue of consent involving others around you. Involving them in sex play, exposing your nude body to them, etc are all consent breaking and therefore not really what people should be doing. Pride isn't for every single individual, but a communal event so if you aren't respectful of other queer people and their rights to consent than you can fuck off.