I skimmed their comments and they seem to be arguing the case presented in this nymag piece, which leftists like Abbie and Robbie Martin have praised for asking important and pertinent questions while also being nearly (but not entirely) devoid of anti-China propaganda. I'm not seeing any indications that they're a chud.
It's a scientific fact that a global flu pandemic in 1977 was caused by a laboratory leak of a particular H1N1 strain, so there's historical precedent for considering this scenario.
I get that the people who do it gain the satisfaction of feeling measured and rational. But we already did this in 2003. I think some of you are too young to remember how people were made to feel crazy for doubting the articles about how Iraq could have WMDs.
10000000% this.
There has not been a single time since then that I have not stood by my demand for concrete evidence and fought every single fucking narrative tooth and nail until getting concrete evidence.
You will not shift my position until you show me concrete fucking evidence.
Until I get concrete evidence the position is that there is no reason to believe it came from a fucking lab.
Show me evidence and I will change my position. Until I get concrete peer reviewed science shut the fuck up pretty please and thank you. I have seen this shit kill literally millions of people too many times now to not fight it.
That's what this user was pushing everywhere on the site right? Seems like a logical step for people talking about a user that was probably up to no good to talk about what they were pushing.
You've convinced me that I need to modify my messaging on the subject to fit the current political realities. I'm used to discussing the lab origin with incredulous friends several months ago before it became part of the national conversation. Now that the hypothesis is in the zeitgeist and is being used to further imperialism, it's more important to acknowledge that the evidence is inconclusive and that dozens of labs in the world could just as easily be the culprit.
What’s supposed to happen if we’re all reasonable and accept this idea?
If we accept that SARS2 may have come from a lab, it opens up the possibility that China is not merely the victim of a baseless disinformation and smear campaign, but that it could be the framed scapegoat for an accidental or purposeful leak from a US lab. That has implications on our understanding of the very nature of the COVID/China propaganda campaign (it becomes understood as projection), and affects the kind of evidence that we should be on the look out for.
I dunno. I'm sceptical because this was investigated by the west months ago and they found nothing to suggest it was altered or created in any way. Maybe it came from some lab, but to say the Chinese engineered it? Premature at this point. Especially because if there was any substantial evidence you know the west would be having a field day with it, but instead we're getting vague stories like "Did covid come from a Wuhan lab? Who knows, maybe. There are some who suggest that it could."
I'm skeptical too. There is no hard evidence, but there is some circumstantial evidence (namely proximity). Sometimes circumstantial evidence can lead you to hard evidence if you follow the clues, which is why we can't yet dismiss it, but it's still important to keep it in perspective and demand hard evidence for any more authoritative claims going forward.
I agree that the intel community would share with us hard evidence if they had it, which is why I'm suspicious of a frame job. It would be easy to simply release a virus near your intended scapegoat.
They didn't know at the time of the pandemic. It wasn't proven to be a lab leak until 2010.
The origin of the virus is immaterial to the actual response to the pandemic, which is why any investigation should be a low priority at this point from a public policy perspective.
I agree that it could be easily utilized as propaganda, which is why I wouldn't run the story if I were a newspaper editor.
But just because something is used as propaganda doesn't mean it isn't true, and we're just a couple of comrades talking on a bear website about what we think might be true.
It took forty years because PCR technology didn't exist in the 70s. We have the technology today to prove these things immediately upon access to the evidence.
If it did come from a lab then that means it could have come from a US lab, which would mean all of the propaganda is projection.
I skimmed their comments and they seem to be arguing the case presented in this nymag piece, which leftists like Abbie and Robbie Martin have praised for asking important and pertinent questions while also being nearly (but not entirely) devoid of anti-China propaganda. I'm not seeing any indications that they're a chud.
It's a scientific fact that a global flu pandemic in 1977 was caused by a laboratory leak of a particular H1N1 strain, so there's historical precedent for considering this scenario.
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10000000% this.
There has not been a single time since then that I have not stood by my demand for concrete evidence and fought every single fucking narrative tooth and nail until getting concrete evidence.
You will not shift my position until you show me concrete fucking evidence.
Until I get concrete evidence the position is that there is no reason to believe it came from a fucking lab.
Show me evidence and I will change my position. Until I get concrete peer reviewed science shut the fuck up pretty please and thank you. I have seen this shit kill literally millions of people too many times now to not fight it.
Somehow this thread went from "show me your peepee lol" to "covid was NOT developed in a lab OK!?!?"
:blocky-wat:
That's what this user was pushing everywhere on the site right? Seems like a logical step for people talking about a user that was probably up to no good to talk about what they were pushing.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
You've convinced me that I need to modify my messaging on the subject to fit the current political realities. I'm used to discussing the lab origin with incredulous friends several months ago before it became part of the national conversation. Now that the hypothesis is in the zeitgeist and is being used to further imperialism, it's more important to acknowledge that the evidence is inconclusive and that dozens of labs in the world could just as easily be the culprit.
I try to synthesize it like this now.
If we accept that SARS2 may have come from a lab, it opens up the possibility that China is not merely the victim of a baseless disinformation and smear campaign, but that it could be the framed scapegoat for an accidental or purposeful leak from a US lab. That has implications on our understanding of the very nature of the COVID/China propaganda campaign (it becomes understood as projection), and affects the kind of evidence that we should be on the look out for.
I dunno. I'm sceptical because this was investigated by the west months ago and they found nothing to suggest it was altered or created in any way. Maybe it came from some lab, but to say the Chinese engineered it? Premature at this point. Especially because if there was any substantial evidence you know the west would be having a field day with it, but instead we're getting vague stories like "Did covid come from a Wuhan lab? Who knows, maybe. There are some who suggest that it could."
I'm skeptical too. There is no hard evidence, but there is some circumstantial evidence (namely proximity). Sometimes circumstantial evidence can lead you to hard evidence if you follow the clues, which is why we can't yet dismiss it, but it's still important to keep it in perspective and demand hard evidence for any more authoritative claims going forward.
I agree that the intel community would share with us hard evidence if they had it, which is why I'm suspicious of a frame job. It would be easy to simply release a virus near your intended scapegoat.
deleted by creator
They didn't know at the time of the pandemic. It wasn't proven to be a lab leak until 2010.
The origin of the virus is immaterial to the actual response to the pandemic, which is why any investigation should be a low priority at this point from a public policy perspective.
I agree that it could be easily utilized as propaganda, which is why I wouldn't run the story if I were a newspaper editor.
But just because something is used as propaganda doesn't mean it isn't true, and we're just a couple of comrades talking on a bear website about what we think might be true.
deleted by creator
It took forty years because PCR technology didn't exist in the 70s. We have the technology today to prove these things immediately upon access to the evidence.
If it did come from a lab then that means it could have come from a US lab, which would mean all of the propaganda is projection.