what with all these white jewish people in the imperial core who suddenly just NEED to go live in the middle east and commit war crimes and genocide along the way? Just... go buy a house in Arizona or something if you REALLY want to live in the desert? These people who are moving into Israel presumably had a place to live before moving across the planet. Why do they specifically need to move to Israel of all places? Who the fuck is waking up in the morning thinking "I need to murder brown children so I can live in that very specific bit of desert on the other side of the world"?

  • LeninWalksTheWorld [any]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    To put it simply: Jewish people found out the hard way what happens to people who don't have a nation-state to represent and protect them. International politics is fucking brutal, and without an army you are mostly helpless to prevent larger states from trampling all over you. Indigenous people all over the world have been genocided just because they were living on a piece of land too valuable to somebody else, so after the Shoah the world thought that giving the Jewish people a state would protect them. Now Israel's actual formation is much more complicated since only a select minority of Jews were part of that specific project but that's the basics.

    The issue now is that Israel became one of those strong nation-states that trample all over weaker defenceless people. Now Palestinians are the (functionally) stateless ones that are stripped of their basic human rights for being born in the wrong place. The core problem of ultimate state sovereignty leading to ethnic cleansing still remains, just the targets have shifted over time as peoples move up and down the geopolitical ladder.

    TLDR: "what if we just gave the Jews their own ethnostate? then if they keep getting killed no one can blame us anymore because they would be in charge of their own security" - UN post-war trying to solve fascism while nearly blacking out from liberalism

    • Ho_Chi_Chungus [she/her]
      hexagon
      ·
      3 years ago

      So instead of going after the underlying issue of why a genocide was being committed against a (generally) unprotected minority group, they just shifted some shit around on the pecking order and now the same thing is give or take happening with some roles reversed?

      • LeninWalksTheWorld [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Yeah basically. There was already prior political pressure from the Zionist movement before WW2, and when the UK decided to get the fuck out of Mandatory Palestine they signed off on Zionists' plans there. The UN was then quite generous to Israel in the partition plan, and hoped that they could live in harmony with the Arab in an economic union with equal rights and everything. But then Israel, with it's population and army swelling from post-war immigration, realized that there would basically be no consequences if they just took more Palestinian land by force (insert "it's free real estate" meme). And well, Israel has been trying to ethnically cleanse the territory ever since.

    • soufatlantasanta [any]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      tangentially related but this is what gets me about the whole zionist situation and WWII in general is that stateless people or anyone who isn't part of a broader sovereign group always gets trampled on, so how exactly do anarchists think stateless societies would handle that for oppressed groups, poorer classes, and those who are oft-used as scapegoats for broader societal issues? it's why I skew closer to the ML ideal that there needs to be centralized authority in some sort of state body (maybe not as heavy-handed as Stalinist USSR) that can give legitimacy and sovereignty to groups that aren't being protected by liberalism and its bodies (nato, the UN, etc)